Sara AKA redsagebear

Forum for Lakeveiw Hawks Hang Gliding Club - Lakeview, Oregon

Re: Sara AKA redsagebear

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:14 pm

Mary,

I've sent you an email message with my phone number.
Please reply by email with yours or give me a call directly.
I won't share your phone number with anyone.

Thanks.
Bob
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Re: Sara AKA redsagebear

Postby mary947 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:31 pm

Bob I gave you my email and my Facebook I am well known around town. I dont want to give you my number being I am a girl. But maybe Bob or guy can call you about this. Sorry
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Re: Sara AKA redsagebear

Postby emily84 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:50 pm

Mary sweetheart I wouldn’t give your number out also and tell we know him. Bob here is my email also engagedtotheson@yahoo.com here is my facebook also http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id= ... 753&v=info
I have to say I agree Sarah has been just nasty to us and I don’t want to judge her and I pray for her a lot but she looks like she wont change. I agree with bob the hang glider man maybe you all came out a little childish and the language was vulgar and not good. I have to agree however the things said about her are true and sadly many people tried to help her. Now Sarah as we speak is in jail I think and it’s all normal for her this is a cycle she has. I don’t know if Sarah wants to be the way she is but it is her fault and she is accountable all the way. I personally wouldn’t support a hang gliding club were she is the president no way. I would support a hang gliding club in Lakeview why not I think it will catch on fast but if Sarah is part of it I promise it wont. Oh and Mark Webber can have a tit fit if he wants I dont see any reason why he is against a club but he is right about sarah I promise you that.
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Re: Sara AKA redsagebear

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:04 am

One reason that I've asked to speak with people on the phone is that it's just a much better means of communication. Far too often people get into "flame wars" on the internet, but find they get along just fine in person. This is obviously a sensitive situation, and pounding away on the keyboard is only likely to make it worse.

Another reason to speak on the phone is that I've seen cases where one single person creates a bunch of email accounts and a bunch of "personalities" on the internet. They do that to make it look as if there's a bunch of people when it's only them. So one person can create a "virtual army" of people to talk back and forth pretending to be a whole community on the internet. It's harder to do that on the phone.

I've offered to make the calls so it won't cost you anything to talk. You can either post your phone numbers or send them to my email account (bobkuczewski@gmail.com). I've also given you my phone number (858-204-7499) if you want to call me directly without letting me know your number. Other than that, I don't know what more I could reasonably do.

But I will say this. The founders of our country came up with a process for justice that always involves the right to face one's accusers. If you're going to say things that damage someone else's reputation, you should have the integrity to stand behind your words. My mother always taught me "Never say something behind someone's back that you wouldn't say to their face". The internet has enabled far too many people to say whatever they want about others with no accountability. You should not be using the real names of real people like Sara Martin or Mark Webber if you're not willing to use your own real name. If you really want your concerns to be taken seriously, then you'll have to find the courage to stand behind what you've said. That's what this country was built on.

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Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski
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Re: Sara AKA redsagebear

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:35 pm

bobmiles20 wrote:This message is to bobk


Hello Bob Miles,

I got your phone call today, but we didn't get past the "How are you's" when we were cut off. I tried returning the call to the number that you had used, but I got a message that said something like the phone number is not in use or is no longer in service. I tried it a couple of times with the same result.

Please call back any time, and the same goes for anyone else on this topic.

The one thing that does seem to come forward is that people seem to like the idea of a hang gliding club in Lakeview. That's very positive, and I hope it's a point of commonality that we can build on. But I don't want to see anyone "thrown under the bus" for that to happen ... including Sara.

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Re: Sara AKA redsagebear

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:38 pm

FOR THE RECORD . . .

I have been checking the server logs and there is a good chance that all of these "people":

    mary947
    bobmiles20
    hanahadley92
    rachel8956
    cristasosa
    emily84
are all just one single person with an obvious grudge against Sara and possibly Kayte. I have to give credit to Warren ("Free") for being the first to spot all of these as likely aliases for one single person. Good Job Free!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

So Sara and Kayte, please ignore this one person with a grudge, and please carry on with your good work.

I support both of you even more after seeing what you're up against with these filthy posts.

Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski
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Re: Sara AKA redsagebear

Postby Free » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:04 am

bobk wrote: FOR THE RECORD . . .

I have been checking the server logs and there is a good chance that all of these "people":

    mary947
    bobmiles20
    hanahadley92
    rachel8956
    cristasosa
    emily84
are all just one single person with an obvious grudge against Sara and possibly Kayte. I have to give credit to Warren ("Free") for being the first to spot all of these as likely aliases for one single person. Good Job Free!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

So Sara and Kayte, please ignore this one person with a grudge, and please carry on with your good work.

I support both of you even more after seeing what you're up against with these filthy posts.

Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski



Personally I can't see much reason to allow the bulk of these attacks to be retained.
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Re: Sara AKA redsagebear

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:08 pm

I think they should be retained to show the kind of people who are opposing Sara and the Lakeview Hawks.

Sometimes you can learn a lot about a person by looking at those who oppose them!!! :thumbup:
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Re: Sara AKA redsagebear

Postby Free » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:17 am

bobk wrote:I think they should be retained to show the kind of people who are opposing Sara and the Lakeview Hawks.

Sometimes you can learn a lot about a person by looking at those who oppose them!!! :thumbup:


Many people will not read through to understand all that is going on here. We may get it because we have been in a similar position but too many will just skim over what has been written and take what they want out of it back to lala land where repurcussions may follow Sara and her mother for a long long time.

Bob, you give people too much credit to read between the lines enough to understand what is really going on here.
Everyone doesn't have your perception and understanding. Sara probably doesn't have your, (or my) thick skin. She hasn't been Ranger trained to be bullet proof from vicious attacks like this.

We don't know who this person is that is attacking under various personas and this fake person is not subject to any repurcussions in the community because they are fake personas. Sara is real and wants to become a part of the community. I'll guarantee you that she would rather not depend on the reading comprehension and understanding of everyone that may come across this crap to understand that it is just a bunch of crap. Women are kinda sensitive about this kinda stuff.. Something like this could even drive a newer member away from the hang gliding community in the long run, and for what gain?

Nothing really.

The record could be noted that a filthy anonymous attack has occurred, and removed, from one twisted source that refused to identify themselves..
This would serve nearly the same purpose, IMO.
I think this case is worthy of a exception to the 'leave it in the record' rule.

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Re: Sara AKA redsagebear

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:51 pm

I'm still trying to work out the best way to moderate this forum...

On one hand, I believe the right to free speech should not be abridged.

On the other hand, free speech should come with a penalty for lying or smearing ... in other words, the offender should lose credibility. That's what usually happens in the real world - they lose credibility. The problem with this virtual world is that we don't know who these people are, so there is no way to connect the proper loss of credibility to a real person.

The compromise I've chosen so far is to confine any unknown (anonymous) members to the New Users forum. But maybe that's not sufficient to convey the lack of accountability to the casual reader.

What do you think of me attaching a message to each "anonymous" post saying that these posts are not backed up by a known person?
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