Change font size
It is currently Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:06 am


Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 1   [ 5 posts ]
Author Message
 Post subject: Torrey Pines Soaring Council Meeting - January 16th, 2012
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:24 am 
Contributor
Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:40 pm
Posts: 6268
Location: San Diego, CA
The Torrey Pines Soaring Council met this evening and we had a pretty good turnout of Torrey Hawks. From my memory, we had Brian, John, Dave, Ken, Ken, Chris, Willy and Bob (myself) in attendance (and I might have forgotten someone). That was more attendees than from any other club on the Soaring Council.

The Council started by approving the minutes from the last meeting.

Then the Council members were solicited for anyone wanting to be an officer in 2012.

Byron Lowry (sailplane pilot from the AGCSC) offered his services as Chair. I think this is a positive step because both previous chairs (Gary Fogel and Angelo Orona) had been staunchly against adding the Torrey Hawks to the Council. I don't know Byron's position, but he's been much more reasonable in personal discussions ... and he couldn't be any worse!!

Joe Holtzman said that he would stay on as Secretary for one more year. Joe is the representative from the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA) which is the national RC association. Joe has stood up to Jebb in the past, but he hasn't been very supportive of the Hawks.

Finally, the USHPA representative, Ken Baier was nominated and elected as Treasurer of the Council. I think they said that the Council has about $60, so this isn't a major burden, but it does show some acceptance of the USHPA representative on the Council. It turns out that Ken Baier was the name that I submitted for the Council when I was Regional Director. Ken is also the Torrey Hawks representative on the Torrey Pines City Park Advisory Board. I have to say that I've been disappointed in Ken's unwillingness to stand up for the Hawks given that we have been responsible for both of his appointments. But maybe he's just waiting for the right time to take action.

The Council then went on to discuss the impact of the Consortium for Regenerative Medicine building on the sailplane operations. There's hope that they will be able to fly this spring (2012). They are still working out the dates but it might be in early March.

There was a quick status report on the Torrey Pines City Park Advisory Board which hasn't met in a long time (over a year?). Ken Baier said they were still technically in existence, but not meeting.

There was no progress reported on the Torrey Pines Historical Film Project.

The RC clubs mentioned that they're planning a fun fly for February 18th. There was no objection.

Bob Kuczewski mentioned that the Torrey Hawks would like to continue to hold our "Second Sunday" events on the second Sunday of each month in 2012. There was no objection.

During the Lessee Report, Robin started by saying that "The grass is green". But on further questioning, he did mention that the City had installed a water meter and that someone had been hit by an RC glider.

Chris Bolfing asked about moving the large sign that's currently in the approach path for hang glider landings. After a little discussion, Robin agreed that it could be moved.

During "New Business", Willy brought up the question of the Training Hill for hang glider training. Several of the Hawks echoed the idea that the training hill would be an asset to the site and would allow training of hang glider pilots. This would allow training of all forms of powerless aviation at the facility. David Metzgar of the San Diego Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association resisted the suggestion, and Byron Lowry expressed that it wasn't in the Soaring Council's purview to make suggestions on that property. Bob Kuczewski commented that the Soaring Council was already involved with the sailplane operations on that property, so including the training hill would not be outside of the Council's scope. Bob Kuczewski asked if the Council would endorse the idea, but it wasn't supported by any of the Council members. Bob Kuczewski then asked if the Council would oppose that use of the land, and no representatives voiced opposition either. It was somewhat surprising (and disappointing) that neither the SDHGPA representative (David Metzgar) nor the USHPA representative (Ken Baier) would endorse the use of the land for a training hill.

During the "New Business", Brian (current Torrey Hawks President) asked the Council about adding the Torrey Hawks pending application to the next Council's agenda in March. We will be following up with that request to hopefully bring the matter to a vote.

The meeting was adjourned.

_________________
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org
View my rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Torrey Pines Soaring Council Meeting - January 16th, 201
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:32 am 
Contributor
Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:20 am
Posts: 126
Sounds about like a black person attending a klan meeting :mrgreen:

If you can seriously consider attending those meetings, you should consider a run for office in U* :srofl:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Torrey Pines Soaring Council Meeting - January 16th, 201
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:12 pm 
Contributor
Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:29 pm
Posts: 47
You don't know how right you are about that, although the real fireworks were before the meeting started. Bob does not need to say anything, someone will start up ruckus by his mere presence at the site. Lets just say that there are some self-decribed crazy people at Torrey. :shock:

Brian


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Torrey Pines Soaring Council Meeting - January 16th, 201
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:31 pm 
Contributor
Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:40 pm
Posts: 6268
Location: San Diego, CA
miguel wrote:
If you can seriously consider attending those meetings, you should consider a run for office in U* :srofl:

Hi Miguel,

I apologize if you already know this story, but I'll post it again in case anyone else reading this hasn't heard about it.

I ran for USHPA Regional Director in 2008 and was elected (defeating David Jebb) with more votes than any other Director in any other Region. The local paraglider crowd hated that outcome so much that they started a recall process almost immediately after my election. I hadn't even done anything as Director, but they wanted me recalled anyway.

It took them over a year (into my 2 year term) to collect enough signatures to meet the threshold for a recall election. Unfortunately the election coincided with an important deadline on my project at work. Many of us were all putting in 16 hour days, and I slept over at the office several times during that period. But while I was working at my job, the Torrey Concessionaire was brainwashing pilots (mostly PG pilots) to vote for the recall. They even had a campaign poster right on the sign-in counter at Torrey, and their cronies had a secret web site (password required) full of lies and/or half-truths.

On top of that, I figured that their candidate to replace me (Bill Helliwell) was better than Brad Hall, so I didn't mind if Bill won my seat because that would free me to run against Brad Hall in the alternate year's election. Based on the prospect of replacing both David Jebb and Brad Hall along with the demands of my job, I didn't campaign very hard in that recall election. Even so, I ended up getting more votes during the recall than I did when originally elected. But the Torrey / PG "get out the vote" campaign was able to get more votes during the recall and I ended up losing.

That would have been fine, and I was really looking forward to running against Brad Hall in the next election. That's when Brad Hall's USHPA cronies hatched a plan to protect his Directorship from my upcoming challenge. While the recall election was already in progress, the USHPA Board changed the rules (consequences) of the election by passing an SOP that made recalled Directors ineligible to be a USHPA Director for several years after being recalled. I specifically asked to have that new change not apply to the election already under way, but the USHPA Board refused to make that exception.

So the bottom line is that USHPA effectively barred me from being a Director even though I got more votes in both my original and recall elections than almost any other Director in the country. They made that change in the middle of an ongoing election after ballots had already been mailed to the members and many of them may have already voted. It was a sneaky underhanded trick, and that's when I knew that USHPA was so corrupted that it would be very difficult (nearly impossible) to fix from within. That's when I started work on the HGAA and eventually the US Hawks.

_________________
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org
View my rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Torrey Pines Soaring Council Meeting - January 16th, 201
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:14 pm 
Contributor
Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:40 pm
Posts: 6268
Location: San Diego, CA
miguel wrote:
Sounds about like a black person attending a klan meeting :mrgreen:


Jacmac wrote:
You don't know how right you are about that, although the real fireworks were before the meeting started. Bob does not need to say anything, someone will start up ruckus by his mere presence at the site. Lets just say that there are some self-decribed crazy people at Torrey. :shock:


I was going through my pictures from the recent restraining order case, and I came across these pictures of one of the bullies at the Gliderport. These were taken just prior to the Soaring Council meeting reported above (January 16th, 2012). I'm posting them now to document the kind of abuse that's been allowed at the Gliderport for years. These are from video, and the original video clip also contains the audio of what's being said. Those attending the meeting may remember some of it ... and it wasn't pretty.

Attachment:
Poirier_001.jpeg
Poirier_001.jpeg [ 39.01 KiB | Viewed 3319 times ]


Attachment:
Poirier_002.jpeg
Poirier_002.jpeg [ 38.33 KiB | Viewed 3319 times ]


Attachment:
Poirier_003.jpeg
Poirier_003.jpeg [ 33.86 KiB | Viewed 3319 times ]


Attachment:
Poirier_FU.jpeg
Poirier_FU.jpeg [ 33.55 KiB | Viewed 3319 times ]


Note that this is the same person (Doug Poirier) who Brad Hall supposedly chose to represent all of USHPA on the Torrey Pines Soaring Council back when it was being restarted in the spring of 2007. You can read the unfinished story of the Modern Torrey Pines Soaring Council here:

     http://ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=936

I used the word "supposedly" because when Doug Poirier showed up at the Soaring Council meeting, Gary Fogel asked him who had appointed him. Poirier was sitting next to Gabriel Jebb, and Gabe Jebb spoke up and said "Brad Hall". Poirier nodded his head and echoed "Brad Hall". They looked like two little kids telling a lie together ... about to be caught.

What they didn't know was that I had been communicating with Brad Hall about who Brad (one of the current USHPA Regional Directors in 2007) was planning to appoint to the Council to represent USHPA. Brad had told me that he wasn't sure yet. So when Doug Poirier showed up claiming to have been appointed by Brad Hall, I was shocked. So I called Brad Hall immediately after the meeting to ask if he had appointed Doug Poirier. Brad Hall said he'd never heard of him and that he certainly didn't appoint anyone to the Council yet.

Brad Hall seemed pretty upset that someone would show up at the Council claiming to have been appointed by him. So I felt pretty good that Brad Hall would get to the bottom of it and straighten it out. That's when I first discovered just how deeply the tentacles of Jebb's power extended into USHPA.

When Brad got back to me he said there was a "misunderstanding", and that he was, indeed, appointing Doug Poirier to represent USHPA on the Torrey Pines Soaring Council. Now how could it be that Brad Hall said he didn't even know who Doug Poirier was, and the next thing you know, he's the one guy - out of all of the USHPA members in Brad's region - that Brad Hall wanted to represent USHPA on the Soaring Council?

I suspect that David Jebb (or possibly Gabe Jebb) actually picked Doug Poirier to be on the Council. Since David Jebb and Brad Hall were both Region 3 Directors, it's not clear who should have been doing the appointing. At the meeting, I am suspecting that Gabe Jebb might have felt it would look like a conflict of interest (which it was) for his father David Jebb to be picking USHPA's representative to the same Council that's supposedly overseeing his own business. So I am suspecting that Gabe Jebb lied when he said that Brad Hall had appointed him, and he figured he'd tell Brad Hall who Brad had supposedly appointed ... after the fact. Neither Gabe Jebb nor Doug Poirier suspected that I'd call Brad Hall immediately after the meeting - which I did.

Here's the message from Brad Hall to Gary Fogel sent shortly after my phone call to Brad:

Quote:
Hi Gary,

Just a note to let you know that I did not appoint Doug Poirier or anyone else as a rep from the USHPA.

I honestly do not even know who he is. I hope this was just a misunderstanding on his part. I will get to the truth of it and let you know.

Brad


That message sure sounded like Brad was going to "get to the truth of it" (Brad's own words). But then he had a talk with one of the Jebbs. It's shocking to see how quickly the blustery Brad Hall turned into a puppet. Read his response carefully to see how he covers for the lies of Gabe and Doug at the Soaring Council meeting. Then read Gary's response below which is right on target.

Quote:
Hi Bob,

Just an update re;our conversation last night. I have talked with Gabe, Gary, and Doug. Part of the misunderstanding about an appointment falls on me. I had said that I did not want to be involved with the soaring council, as I feel I served my time in the past. I should have said "as a member of the council". This was taken to mean I had no interest. In fact I do have an interest. I am learning more about what the council is focusing on and what they are not. There seems to be some validity to the threat posed by UCSD and the future of sailplane operations at Torrey. This is a large issue and deserves some attention. From what I have heard so far the council is addressing this issue.

I have gone back and read everything you have posted and the emails you have sent me. Sometimes you come across as reasonable and concerned. Other times it seems like you have a problem with the Jebb family and are trying to use the soaring council as a means to oust them. Often it is hard to tell what you think you will accomplish with all this. You certainly have a way with words, but seem very selective in your responses to direct questions. You do have a way of alienating those that do not agree with your positions. I can't tell if this is intentional or not.

It Has been my experience over the years that compromise is what reasonable people do to resolve differing opinions. If you look at the overall make up of the soaring council you will see that all parties have their specific flight discipline that they all feel is the most important. It is through taking a bigger view of the whole picture that they are able to come to a consensus and do what they, in their collective wisdom, deem to be right. No one gets all they want, but all get something. A spirit of cooperation is the machine that drives the end results.

I know many of the members of the soaring council. Some for many years. As a board that has very little hope of affecting real change, I applaud them all for the effort. I have sat in the same chair and learned many lessons in the process. Sometimes the effort is worth it, most times it is not. This is not to say the challenges should not be met.

The reality is the soaring council has been an advisory committee. It does not make policy. It is often ignored or dismissed. The absolute worst thing it can do, in my opinion, is parade its disputes and perceived injustices before any City employee or council. We have the privilege of flight at Torrey. It is not a right. It has been revoked in the past and can be revoked again. They are most happy when we are "invisible". We should be able to operate within the existing boundaries and take care of each other. We certainly do not want Joe Pension from the complaint department being the one that decides our fate. This is a real possibility if the City were to decide to become involved on even a minor scale.

I hope you can step back and see if your actions are really in the best interest of all pilots. This is not to say that you do not have valid concerns. I believe some are. There are few among us who are willing to speak up for what they feel is right. Ask yourself if all your effort has made a positive difference. If not, why not? It can't be that all who disagree with you are wrong. There must be a path for you to take that will generate a positive outcome. Adversarial or derogatory remarks never creates a coalition or alliance to help you move your ideas ahead. Perhaps it is time to cool off and regroup. Get some airtime. Have some fun. Please move cautiously. Don't do anything that will put Torrey at risk.

Brad Hall


Wow!! That made it pretty clear who was pulling Brad Hall's puppet strings!!! Note the themes of "don't rock the boat" or we'll all lose Torrey. In other words, don't report the abuses or the safety violations or the violations of the law. And whatever you do, don't get the City involved in overseeing a park that's supposedly owned by the people of San Diego!!

Here's Gary Fogel's response to Brad Hall:

Quote:
Brad,

Curious on your take on this and if there was any further development today. I saw the copy of the email to Bob but it seemed to focus more on Bob than on the stunt that Doug (and Gabe?) pulled on the Soaring Council yesterday. I'm very curious how it is that Doug defended his actions to you.

Quite honestly, I feel completely duped. Doug blatantly lied to everyone about your appointing him, and Gabe corroborated this. If we had known the truth, that he was not appointed by you, I seriously doubt even one council member would have voted for him. I know that Angelo Orona, Ed Slater, and I all were swayed simply because he mentioned your name and we all consider you to be a good judge of character for the council.

I think it is imperative for USHPA to have the representative it wants but to do that representation properly the person has to be honest with the council and thus represent USHPA honestly. To defend Bob ... Bob was the only one in the room that saw through this ruse and voiced a calm and consise opinion that Doug would not be a good choice for the soaring council. I appreciate his honesty and should have listened to him more closely.

I'm in business meetings much of the day tomorrow but I'll do my best to give you a call so we can discuss further.

Gary


Of course, being the puppet of the Jebbs, Brad Hall stood by his appointment. Eventually - a few months later - I met the USHPA President, Lisa Tate, and I explained the situation. She was very adamant that only USHPA Regional Directors could represent USHPA on the Soaring Council, and so in the fall she replaced Doug Poirier with ... Brad Hall.   :roll:

_________________
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org
View my rating at: US Hang Gliding Rating System


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 1   [ 5 posts ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
610nm Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net