[AirNut]

Bob, I like your point about words being a poor reflection of reality. This is why they can be miss-used so readily (part of what Joe is getting at I suppose).

We agree 100% there.     

For example, someone could write this translation of Churchill's speech about World War II:

"We are completely justified in bombing German men, women and children, because it was Kaiser Wilhelm (et al) who started World War I, Adolf Hitler who started World War II, and Hermann Goering and the Luftwaffe who first bombed innocent civilians in London. Therefore, we need to make German men, women and children feel the cost of the war so that Adolf Hitler will lose the will to keep fighting."

The use of seemingly disconnected nouns in that description doesn't accurately represent the real world connection between "German men, women, and children" and the war machine that had risen from their choices in governance (for whatever reason ... economic, nationalistic, etc).

AirNut, I hope you have a good sense of humor.     

It's great to share membership in this organization with you, and I look forward to many future thoughtful and civil discussions!!!

This was the sad thing about it. Once we make our initial choices in governance, momentum and inertia can build up in the tide of events that can take us in directions not originally foreseen (and usually unpleasant). This is usually what happens in dictatorships / autocracies, e.g. the French Revolution doing away with one autocracy (the 'anciene regime') with cries of Liberty, Equality, Fraternity, but just creating a worse one (Napoleon) that killed hundreds of thousands of people. Ditto with Hitler.

So it's probably the underlying system of autocracy that is the problem, or more generally, humanity's fondness for saddling itself with rigid hierarchies. If I can draw a pretty long bow and put all that into the perspective of US Hawks versus the other autocratic 'regimes' (DS.org, SG.org etc), we can see the end-result of autocratic governance in our own little HG bailiwick.

Of course, 'democracy' is yet another label, and a pretty broad one, so applying that laudable, but broad, principle to US Hawks will be the tricky bit (good luck to you all on that). But from what I've seen so far, I'm moderately hopeful you won't be be guillotining each other any time soon.

Whew! I think I'd better just bail before I torture this analogy completely to death. So here's another of Winston's (quite apropos) quotes (probably my favourite):

"Democracy is the worst form of government.....except for all the others".

[Bob Kuczewski]

Of course, 'democracy' is yet another label, and a pretty broad one, so applying that laudable, but broad, principle to US Hawks will be the tricky bit (good luck to you all on that).

What do you mean "you all" Kemosahbee? Come join us. Let's build this together!!!     

[AirNut]

Pleased to saddle up and help in any way I can, Tonto!

I didn't want to appear to be horning in as an upstart colonial (i.e. Aussie). But hang on a minute, you guys were all upstart colonials once as well, so I suppose it all evens out in the end.

But I am concerned that we have the same issues going on in Australia, namely the merging of HG and PG into one national association, with the consequent dilution of influence for the HG community. And then there's the even tougher nut of creating a fair and civilized forum for sharing our love of the sport of hang gliding (hopefully without killing one another). You seem to be doing OK on the latter front, if I can venture an upstart colonial opinion .

So, if these issues can be addressed in the U.S. via US Hawks, then that would show the way forward for us Downunder-ites.

[Bob Kuczewski]

The US Hawks was originally conceived for "U.S.", but the "US" could be all of "us".  

The only thing that I think could be "thorny" across borders is insurance, but we can cross that canyon when we get to it.

I will add that the Torrey Hawks (which is both a USHPA Chapter and a US Hawks Chapter) has members from all over the world. In fact, there's a fellow named "Bill" who joined us when he was visiting Los Angeles for an award a few years back. You might have heard of him down under.

Please sign yourself up in the "US Hawks Board of Directors Testing in 2015" topic and let's see how it all works out.