US Hawks Hang Gliding Association • View topic - Why there isn't any growth in hang gliding

by **Bob Kuczewski** » Wed Mar 19, 2025 8:32 pm

I've always found it amazing as to how much influence "randomness" can have on our lives.

Tonight I was watching the First Flight of the Florian Flyer posted on http://www.hangglifter.com/tphg46.html. I scrolled to the end of the setup portion to enjoy watching the first flights of Florian's glider (thanks again Florian!). When the video finished, YouTube prompted me with more things to watch based on my history. One of them was this video on the Bernoulli Effect and why it was all wrong:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT5oMBN5W5M

I watched a little of it, and then remembered my own response to an interchange on the Bernoulli effect between Rick Masters and Frank Colver. I searched for it here on the U.S. Hawks and found this topic. Rick's post was the third in this topic, Frank's post was the fourth, and mine was the fifth. This topic was started just about 9 and a half years ago, and all the posts are still here to this day.

But if you look at the first post in this topic, you'll see my quotes from a topic on the Oz Forum. That topic is still there on the Oz Forum, but my own post was senselessly deleted just about 9 and a half years ago by Davis. What did I post that Davis felt was so horrendous as to actually delete it? Read it yourself. Here it is:

Bob Hawk wrote:
Read Mark Forbes responses again. Read them critically. Mark Forbes has been one of the 4 members of USHPA's Executive Committee for as long as I can remember. Read his comments and ask yourself where's the part where he says "Here's how we're going to turn this around …"

It's not there. It's not there because USHPA isn't dedicated to hang gliding. If USHPA were USHGA and if paragliding were in another organization, USHGA would be strategizing on how to save the sport of hang gliding. They'd be desperately competing to grow the sport rather than shrugging their Mark Forbes shoulders with excuses.

Torrey Pines has been the "canary in the coal mine" when it comes to the decline of hang gliding. Look at how USHPA has handled that situation and you'll see the future of hang gliding. The Torrey Hawks have worked tirelessly for years to grow hang gliding at that site, and USHPA has stabbed us in the back at every turn - every single turn.

When it comes to insurance, the insurance industry depends on USHPA to fix problems before they become claims. USHPA (and Mark Forbes himself) knew about the problems at Torrey for years and did nothing to fix them because they didn't want to rock their PG buddy's apple cart. Instead of fixing the problems, they shot the messenger. How sustainable is that strategy Mark?

Mark Forbes blames the insurance company for the loss of Special Observers. Some day he'll blame the insurance company for the loss of hang gliding altogether. That's the future of hang gliding protected by USHPA. Hang gliding deserves better than being a second class citizen in the national association that's supposed to be there to protect it.

Davis, this needed to be said.

Davis promptly deleted that post nearly 9 and a half years ago. It has been gone all this time.

No one will ever convince me that the destruction of so many communication channels between hang gliding pilots hasn't been devastating to the sport of hang gliding. This topic is worth reading from the beginning.

by **Chris McKeon** » Sun Mar 23, 2025 11:43 pm

friend of Mine, a Friend Wo Fly's HG's or did Fly Hang Gliders told me that after My Last Flight and Pound that I had Not been able to Fly a H-G, He told Me I should just find something else to Do. I did not and have not been able to Find something else that I could do that even Compares to Flying My predator. But that was one of those: "that was Then, this is Now" kind of Deals. But on the Bright side of things in My Life. I am slowly approaching the point, the former unattainable point where I will be a Hundred Percent Recovered. Fairly soon I will be having My Brain Scanned by Doctor Daniel Amen. Then I will be able to determine how My Brain is. Providing that the Scanning of My Brain goes well. This Data could be of help to me. Yes, as soon as I have enough Duosyllable so that I can Pay for My Brain to be scanned. I will have My Brain Scanned.

In the Words of the Graitful Dead Song: This has been a Long and Strange Road. After I am totally recovered. I think I might Write a Book. "How to Recover from a severe Traumatic Brain Injury.

The More that We Fly. Maybe it will cause more Onlookers to be inspired. "Wow, I want to do that"!

Troughly enjoy all of You, Your Next Flights Enjoy.

by **Craig Muhonen** » Sun Apr 20, 2025 11:13 am

Says it all.

Rick Masters wrote:
    We can point fingers all day (and with some validity) but the sad truth as to why hang gliding is losing participation is that
the majority of today's generation of people who want to fly are are stupid and lazy.
    Look at this.
American adults get a D in science; 22% confuse astronomy and astrology.
http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-science-quiz-americans-pew-20150909-story.html

    These people don't even recognize the importance of science, anymore. To them, an uninformed opinion is just as or even more relevant than one based on scientific evidence. It's unbelievable. It's shameful. The fact that this could even happen in our country is a much more important subject than anything to do with hang gliding!
    I seriously doubt one in 50 soaring parachutists could explain how a hang glider can take greater advantage of the Bernoulli Effect than their pathetic, fickle, low-performing parachutes or why an airframe is even important.

    I have had hang glider pilots come to me, years later, and thank me for saving their lives by teaching them cross-country skills for surviving the Big Air. These were men who had gown to be real pilots and I was humbled and grateful for their words.
    But what today's lazy and stupid wanna-be pilots want is only instant gratification.
    They want to fly now. That's all. That is the most important thing to them. They don't care about the details. It is unbelievable.
     They don't even care about the deaths!

Mythology of the Airframe -- A Plague of Paragliders (archived May 21, 2012, incomplete)

https://web.archive.org/web/20120502132604/http://www.cometclones.com/

    They don't want to listen to or consider why it may be a bad idea to encounter normal atmospheric turbulence while hanging onto laundry. It's way too complicated for their tiny, stupid, lazy brains.
    To squeeze out these uncomfortable thoughts, they join together to demonize any critics. The more experienced - or in my opinion, only lucky - unite in preventing their fellow soaring parachutists from hearing the truth. Even hang glider pilots - and much worse, even their forum principals and "moderators" who have swallowed the Kool Aid, a bizarre, invalid and incomprehensible form of political correctness in relation to parachutes - join with soaring parachutists in their agenda to spread lies and stifle dissent.
    To them, the honest critics are the problem, not the deadly laundry they imagine as aircraft.
    They don't get it when a mutant organization that stands to make a lot of money off their folly says, "Follow me. Right this way."
    There have always been people like this. This type of pilot was a plague to the new sport of hang gliding during the first 15 years.
    They didn't understand or care to understand the new principals of micro-meteorology we free-flight hang glider were discovering. As soon as ultralights came along, they disappeared from hang gliding.
    They were motorcyclists on powered hang gliders and they killed themselves in droves.
    Then along came paragliding and now it has it sucked off the same types. This was a good thing for hang gliding. We don't need nor really even want them in hang gliding.
    Yes, the few who want to excel - those who finally figured out that they made a mistake by at first choosing parachutes over real aircraft - should be welcomed into the sport.
    But the rest of them can go on to the "reward" of a paraglider's limp or burial. It's not our fault. We get to watch. That's all. They're never going to listen or understand. They don't get it. There's nothing we can do.
    Yet, there is a severe consequence for hang gliding when it is represented by a parachuting organization.
    We lose. In exchange for nothing, we share all the ugly baggage that comes with paragliding: collapse, cravats, spiral dives.
    Why would we do that?
    Worse, while we struggle, we have turncoats who lie about the safety of paragliding. This causes potential hang glider pilots to turn away from our sport:

The reason people are gravitating to the PG is obvious ; the PG is safer .     Just look at the stats for number of recent deaths , and you see that more people died this year on a HG , than the PG . Bring it ON !!!

    I can provide you with over 160 global paraglider fatalities over the past 18 months. Neither sport is safe but hang glider pilots kill themselves with pilot error while paraglider pilots die when their paragliders kill them by losing their airfoil shape and going out of control to impact. We hang glider pilots, in the past, with the help of a national organization that cared about us, addressed pilot error and produced several years of ZERO hang gliding fatalities.
    Those days are over. We no longer have a national organization dedicated to hang gliding.
    Meanwhile, paragliding deaths are clearly random. "Expert" or novice, it doesn't seem to make any difference. There is nothing that can be done - and certainly not by hang glider pilots. Since 2000, there have never been fewer deaths globally in paragliding than 50! That was the lowest to date - going all the way back to 2000.
    Today, the U.S. association mixes in both hang gliding and paragliding fatalities and reports them as free-flight fatalities. None of you hang glider pilots can ever hope to make a difference - no matter what you do in terms of safety and skill - because paragliding dominates free-flight fatalities.
    Paragliding is a slaughter regardless what some clueless idiots who ignore international news might say.
    This is why it is so important for hang glider pilots to form a national hang gliding organization in the Untied States NOW.
    We should not beat ourselves up over the dwindling numbers of hang gliding participants.
    Paragliding is like alcoholism. But that doesn't make it better or offer an excuse for endemic collapse in turbulence.
    Despite all the valid arguments we can make, we need to forget about paragliding.
    Hang gliding is our sport.
    All we need is a national organization that supports hang gliding and it will grow.
    Forget paragliding. Let them forge their own path without us.

    If only fifty hang glider pilots will demonstrate the courage of BobK, it will happen.

.......................................................................................................................
Amazing writing by Rick, and I'll add my take on a truly bizarre happening in my home town.
This appeared "outta' the blue" one day.

: loss of 50 years of hang gliding.png (154.83 KiB) Viewed 175 times

Expanded;
Due to the expiration of the insurance policy initiating foot launched flights originating from within the Telluride Ski Resort boundary is forbidden and illegal the Telluride Air Force, a non-profit (c)(3) organization does not condone, encourage, or permit, any flight initiating from the Telluride Ski Resort boundary and is further devoid of any responsibility involving such activity. We wish you high flights with happy landings from everywhere.
.
I said;
After 50 years of world renown Hang Gliding and paragliding in Telluride, the STUPID AND AROGANT commercial exploitation by the now co-opted TAF, led to this terrible outcome for us locals. Because of all the paragliding deaths around the world, the insurance was raised from $500/yr to $1,500/yr and they didn't want to pay (in the richest ski resort in the world) so they let it expire (even U$HPA refused to help) and took their marbles and went home. "we won't pay, so nobody will fly".

Here are some memories of mine from a bygone era, enjoy, and of course a Hang Glider looks like the speed of sound in water.