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Flying XC Question

Postby Chris McKeon » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:09 pm

Does anyone have any thoughts regarding Flying XC? As in covering as much Terra Firma as possible in the least amount of time Time.

When I used to fly XC I tended to cover ground fairly quickly. I did Fly XC using Speeds to Fly By. Heck I flew a Predator! I always simply relied on My Gliders great ability to be able to climb in the weakest Thermals, then upon topping out at the top of Said Thermal. I would simply pull in on the Bar. Yes maybe I flew too fast between Thermals. Maybe I would have been able to cover more ground on a given Day of flying XC if I had resisted the temptation to stuff the Bar. So what do You Guys think? Do not take Me wrong Flying My Predator the way I Flew it caused it to Fly Far on a Given Day of Flying. But then Flying far was the name of My Predators Game.

OFF Topic. If anyone here knows Paris William's. Would You Please ask Him to Call Me? Chris McKeon 925-497-1059
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Re: Flying XC Question

Postby Bill Cummings » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:46 pm

Back in ‘95 during the Chelan Nationals I wasn’t too fond of
open distance downwind speed runs. Or 90 miles XC to Davenport
WA airport. We would be getting back around midnight and still had
to resupply, jump in the lake to wash the dust and sweat off, and get
a few hours of sleep to be up in time for the next days pilot meeting.
Out and back or triangle courses were way more fun.
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Re: Flying XC Question

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:22 am

In "The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement" topic, Rick Masters posted this picture:

misti.jpg
misti.jpg (59.65 KiB) Viewed 716 times


That started a discussion that began to diverge from the 5 foot topic:

Chris McKeon wrote:OK the picture of the three Guys with their Gliders packed on their backs. Could something like this be done with My Predator?

Chris McKeon wrote:I can see it in My Minds Eye. How while I was flying Cross Country, that I could Push The Distance of My Flight. knowing that I very well might be pushing the finale outcome of My XC Flight. You Guys all know what I am talking about here. We have all Been there. You want to cover as much distance as Possible while Flying Xc. Yet yor are quite Conscious of after You have Landed. How much of pain in the rear it will be to get Your Packed Glider to the Nearest road. So being able to Short-Pack My Predator, and to have a wheel on onw end boy would this be cool. That way I could end up with My Predator along side of a road waiting for My driver too show up. This could make getting My Predator to the road a whole lot easier.

Bob Kuczewski wrote:
Chris McKeon wrote:We have all Been there. You want to cover as much distance as Possible while Flying Xc.

Not true. Not all hang gliding pilots are obsessed with distance. Some would prefer more time in the air over more distance traveled. Others would prefer a known safe landing area over the uncertain landing availability during a cross country flight.

Chris McKeon wrote:This Whole landing Quandary:

I mean When Flying I like everyone else wants to make the Decision to Land. I want it to be that I have decided that I have Flown long enough, That "I" Have made the decision to land because I have been up in the Air Long enough, not Because through My ineptness I have Messed up in My decisions while Flying or Just plain have not the Skill to stay Air-Born. I come from the School of Thought. That if our Engine is up Shall so We will be up in the Sky. Bob talks about Flying just for the Love of Flying. Think about it Bob You have this great attributer that can, and does reward You with much Flying Time to enjoy. You have a successful, enjoyable time Flying. Yes Just "LOVING TO FLY" as Bob has said so often Well I like so many of You simply love to be in the Air. I saw use that asset of loving to be in the Air. Used that asset to expand Your Flying . I mean think about ridge running up and down same Ridge, up and back over over and over Constantly. Day in and day out, Month in and Month out. Year in, and year out. Anyone would like a Change of scenery. I mean that once One had finally had figured out how to detect Wind direction from the Air. Heck You might be Flying a twenty nine foot Whether Vane, Use it! One would think that a case of raw Boredom would develop upon having flown the same ridge, up and down, back and forth. Day after Day, Month after Month.

Flying XC for Me is not about Flying further than another Pilot. No Flying XC for Me is to merely push myself to use My gifts to be able to stay in the Air. I also always wanted to Fly out to where I could have a change of scenery.

One More Thing: Remember XC is not a Four letter Cuss Word. fu**ing is not just a Cuss word it is also a Town in Austria.

Bob Kuczewski wrote:
Chris McKeon wrote:I mean think about ridge running up and down same Ridge, up and back over over and over Constantly. Day in and day out, Month in and Month out. Year in, and year out. Anyone would like a Change of scenery.


James Taylor wrote and sung a very great song that might help:

https://youtu.be/sW7Z1VttPKk



James Taylor wrote:
The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time.
Any fool can do it, there ain't nothing to it.
Nobody knows how we got to the top of the hill.
But since we're on our way down, we might as well enjoy the ride.

The secret of love is in opening up your heart.
It's okay to feel afraid, but don't let that stand in your way.
'Cause anyone knows that love is the only road.
And since we're only here for a while,
Might as well show some style.
Give us a smile.

Isn't it a lovely ride? Sliding down, gliding down,
Try not to try too hard, it's just a lovely ride.

Now the thing about time is that time isn't really real.
It's just your point of view, how does it feel for you?
Einstein said he could never understand it all.
Planets spinning through space, the smile upon your face,
Welcome to the human race.

Some kind of lovely ride. I'll be sliding down, I'll be gliding down.
Try not to try too hard, it's just a lovely ride.

Isn't it a lovely ride? See me sliding down, gliding down,
Try not to try too hard, it's just a lovely ride.

The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time.


Chris, you've said that your first return to flight at Dockweiler (or anywhere else) will be one of your greatest flights ... and I'm sure it will be. But would you have said that before your injury? What's the difference? How could a little 10 second sled ride be a great thing now, but not have been worth your time a dozen years ago?

The difference is perspective. If you can enjoy and cherish that little 10 second flight now, why couldn't you have enjoyed and cherished it just as much 12 years ago? The difference really is perspective, and perspective is something that YOU control.

The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time. :)

Frank Colver wrote:Very well said Bob!

Close in ridge soaring was my favorite form of hang gliding. Maybe it was because of years of ridge soaring R/C model gliders and wishing I could be in them. I got my fill of XC in a foot launched balloon.

Chris, different strokes for different folks! It would er boring if we all liked the same things.

Frank


At that point, Craig began to bring the discussion back to Joe's original topic:

Craig Muhonen wrote:Thanks Joe, I like it, you take things step by step and do thought experiments which lead to logical conclusions. ...


But the alternative discussion still had some momentum:

Chris McKeon wrote:You know Guys words such as; Amazed, intrigued, fascinated, were all words that Went through My Mind Before I Pounded. Just as currently those same words go through My Mind right now. Yes I am amazed at how my Body and my Brain have been able to have regained so much after my crash, I should say the day of My impact. Last week I was Talking to a Friend of mine, well Mike M said to Me; so Chris, You really did have Brain injury? You know I can not tell. You seem to be the same old Jerk that You used to be.

Hearing comments such as Mike M's are so cool, I love it. I've gone through a life changing event, that I knew nothing of. I also know of none who has gone as far as I have regarding injuring one's self. But the real "Hat Trick" is not to only survive , But to regain a sense of normalcy. Granted My normal is everyone else's Abnormal. But it is all Mine.

Chris McKeon wrote:Obsessed with Distance Me? I have not really have never been obsessed with Flying XC. As a Pilot once Said; "I just love to Fly". Well so do I. Being that I flew the Predator One Fifty Eight , the Greatest King-Posted Glider ever Made regarding Performance. When I Flew my Predator. It Just seemed so natural to Head out XC. i mean it just seemed like the thing to Do regarding heading out on an Cross Country Adventure. Ok Here is something I really do not understand. If a Piolet s to land at the Home Liz where he or She is flying. what makes that LZ on that Given Day any more, or less safe than an LZ. that is ten, Thirty, Fifty, or a Hundred Miles away from where You took off from? Same Day, same conditions, same Pilot, same Glider. safer; what do you mean by safe, the only Variables that I know of are the area that you are going to land in. and Wind direction. We all do the similar rituals Look down at the Topography, Look at the Terrain. Look at indicators of the Prevailing wind direction. Then as you get lower I night s=do a 360 or two, just to get the Wind Direct on, then confirm My appraisal of wind direction via looking at Leaves on Trees blowing. od look at water in a body of wind. Also if I am indeed at a Home site LZ. I will look at the Flag, to see if it confirms what I have already decided Myself. Neither CROSS, Nor COUNTRY, are a Four Letter Word. One last thought; Flying was radically Cool Thirty years ago. it is still radically Cool.

Chris McKeon wrote:Bob talks wrongly about My Being obsessed with Flying SC. No that is not True! For Yes I have a deep obsession with Free-Flight, But My learning to Fly went like this; I flew down to New z=Zealand Back in During our Winter of 1990. Well our Winter is Their Summer. It was there that I did the Standard deal. I ran off Sand dunes, over and over until my Instructor Bruce I believe His name was felt good enough about My abilities to control the Glider, that We then Went to a Costal Cliff site, Kariotahi. Well it was at Kariotahai where I got My First Cliff Launches. I then Returned Home to the right here in Brentwood Northern California USA.

Well back Home I hooked up with an instructor Doug Prather and I continued My assentation to the Sky! Here is a funny little story regarding A talk I had with Doug a Year or so ago; I said to Doug: You know Doug when I asked You to call John and so You could get a Predator ordered up for Me. Well Doug responded by saying that He could not get an Advanced ratted Glider for a Non advanced ratted Pilot. I thought that You thought that I was a Dog, a Hack as a Pilot. Well Responded; I did not think that You were a Dog as a Pilot, i thought that You were a Smoking Hot Pilot. It was just that I could not get an advanced ratted Glider ordered for a Non Advanced ratted Pilot. I am glad that Doug straightened Me out on that Glider Deal. So what did I do,? I went around Doug an I called John directly, then the Rest is History. I had My Predator.

But Flying XC is not a Higher calling, no it is not that all. Flying Cross Country is a Call for sure. Flying Cross Country is what has allowed Me to excel in My Flying. I see enjoyment as spending a lot of time in the Air, as Much time in the Air as Possible. also very much enjoy the constantly changing Scenery that cover ground affords. FLYING XC for Me anyways, is using your attributes such as simply loving to be in the Air. Couples with a lust to see new Sites. And two more notable facts. Neither Cross, nor Country are Four letter Words.

Now that I have lost just over One Hundred Pounds. I believe that this 196 Pound Pilot, 196 and dropping by the way. My Goal is to get down to 185 Pounds. I believe that if this Six-Foot-Three and One Half inch Tall Predator Pilot Might just Be able to Soar even longer, and Fly FURTHER than before March 28th 2010.
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Re: Flying XC Question

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:37 am

Chris McKeon wrote:Ok Here is something I really do not understand. If a Piolet s to land at the Home Liz where he or She is flying. what makes that LZ on that Given Day any more, or less safe than an LZ. that is ten, Thirty, Fifty, or a Hundred Miles away from where You took off from?

First off, an LZ that's within glide distance is always safer than that same exact LZ ten, thirty, fifty, or a hundred miles away.

A lot can happen in the ten, thirty, fifty, or a hundred miles between you and your landing zone. You might get tired or sick or have an equipment failure. The weather conditions might be very different over that distance.

And don't forget that distance also equates to time. The conditions at your XC destination might have been fine when you launched, but you won't be landing there for many hours due to distance. That increases the possibility that conditions will change over time as well as distance.

But beyond all of that, cross country flight will often put pilots over territory where they simply can not find a safe place to land. That's what bothers me the most. Being over unlandable territory is a gamble. It might be a relatively safe gamble when lift is abundant, but It's still a gamble.

Chris, I tend to be libertarian about people's choices. After all, most people think that any hang gliding is too dangerous for them. So I'm not inclined to tell people what they can and can't do. I posted in response to this statement:

Chris McKeon wrote:We have all Been there. You want to cover as much distance as Possible while Flying Xc.


I just wanted to point out why not everyone wants to cover as much distance as possible.
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Flying Thoughts, Mine.

Postby Chris McKeon » Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:32 am

OK I most likely will take some flack from Bob for My starting a New Thread regarding Dealing with Your Glider. I might also get banned for using Cuss Words such as Cross Country, and safety. but if Bob Bans Me so Be it.

Fly Cross Country is not a wrong thing to do. I mean Flying is great Fun. It matters not if You choose to fly covering Distance XC, or if you just want to go to your local Beach site and make Pass after pass up and down the same length of Cliff. The Glider Fly's. It only matters to the Pilot that He or She is making the same Pass up and down the same realist ate over and over until the Pilot no loner wants to stay in the Air. Then the Piot simply Plops down on top of the Cliff where their Flight started from. The the next time Said Pilot chooses to fly the Coast. He or she will be able to do the; "EXACT SAMME THING over again.

FLYING XC AND SAFETY;

I have been Miles from where I started my Flight. I would find Myself soaring along. Looking down, searching for People, "Witnesses" that could, and hopefully would call 911 if I were to Pound. I can just imagine Pounding into say the Ground up in the High Desert, without having a Person to call 911. Yes if I had Pounded and was lying on the ground unconscious with no one to Witness My Pounding When i indeed did Pound on march Twenty eight Two Thousand Ten. I would Have most likely done what y initial Prognosis Was as told to "X". I would have Died.

Take enjoying the Great Out-Doors for example. One Type of Person Might be happy Driving to a Place . walking into the the terrain only a couple of yards. Sitting Down, to enjoy the place. Great!

Another type will hike in with a Back Pack that has all His or Her Gear so as to be able to stay in the great outdoors for a number of days water, Change of Cloths, Tent, Food, etc.

Ok let Me make this perfectly Clear; Neither person is hiking in into the beautiful outdoors in anyway in a better way than the other Person. Dat Hike, or if You hike in for Miles, and spend Days. Both are doing the same thing.

Just as a Pilot who merely Fly's up and down to The coast. The Costal Pilot does not fly in a more bountiful fulfilling manner than an XC Pilot, or Visa versa. Both Pilots are essentially doing the same Thing. They are both Flying.

One More Time the words cross, and the word Country are not Cuss Words. Bob please do not ban Me. Also Bob Feel free so as not that I clutter up this site. Because this is a new Post. Go ahead and delate one of two of My other Posts.
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Re: Hello US Hawks!!

Postby Chris McKeon » Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:16 am

OK Cob, Quid Pro Quo Gp ahead and combine <y last Post with another Post. But, There has to be a But. Will You please do not respond to My comments that in order for Me to really Enjoy Flying more I like to fly covering Distance, as in Flying Cross country Flying. Flying in a Fish-bowl such as Torrey Pines, is fine, have at it. I do not want to run the risks involved in flying at a site such as that. For one of my friends KM had a mid Air, Flying I believe right close to Launch. In fact the other Pilot was not Flying a Para Glider but was flying a Hang-Glider. I know not if that Pilot was Flying a Flex-Wing, or or a Rigid Wing. Bu the result of the two Pilots hitting each other one of our all-Time greatest Pilots was lost for ever. One finale thought on KM. Ken really was a Good Pilot, But KM was a great Person! I so miss Km. If Km had been Flying away from the Site that Day. Doing an XC Jaunt, like He Did so many times before. Ken would still be with us today. Flying at Your local site can be dangerous, in fact it May be a Fatal thing to Do.

Does any one know of a situation where Two Pilots experienced an Mid-Air while Both Pilots were Flying XC? I know of not an single XC Mid-Air.

Bob if You want to communicate with me Call Demon's Phone, I believe that You have the Number.

So VBob Combine Join Posts. Do what ever You feel You Need to do. Ok, have a goood time, I will see You when We are Both Flying up at Cloud Base.

Get High Go Far Good By Bob.
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Re: Flying Thoughts, Mine.

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:41 pm

Chris McKeon wrote:OK I most likely will take some flack from Bob for My starting a New Thread regarding Dealing with Your Glider. I might also get banned for using Cuss Words such as Cross Country, and safety. but if Bob Bans Me so Be it.

Chris, you may be spending too much time living in fear on sites like hanggliding.org. Here at the U.S. Hawks we almost never ban anyone. Furthermore, all restrictions (even emergency bans) are subject to review by our Advisory Board of Directors. So you won't get banned for saying "Cross Country" unless the majority of our Advisory Directors agrees (very unlikely).

Chris McKeon wrote:Fly Cross Country is not a wrong thing to do.

No one has said that flying cross country is a wrong thing to do. It's a choice just like all of our flying choices and it does have its consequences ... as you know. But it gets a little tiresome when anyone repeatedly posts things like "a day without XC is like a day without sunshine".

Some of us just love to fly. We love to fly Funston. We love to fly Torrey. We love to fly South Side Point of the Mountain. And we even love to fly Dockweiler. None of those are cross country sites, but we love to fly them just the same. You can say that's "flying in a fish bowl", but don't be surprised if some of us have a different opinion and express it. That's what a forum is for. It's about sharing our perspectives ... even when we disagree.

Chris, you are a valued member of the U.S. Hawks. I hope you will continue to post here and I look forward to reading posts (and hopefully watching videos) of your return to flight.

Let's agree on that. :)
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Re: Flying XC Question

Postby Chris McKeon » Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:25 am

Ok, I must saw that I am very interested in what those Three Guys seem to have. I will call what they have on their Backs. Hang Glider Back-Packs. I mean slowly. very, Very slowly. I am in the process to once again Fly. in flying i will do what i used to do soften. i will be Flying numerous Cross country Routes. for heck I have beenstuck here upon the ground, in what John called Our; "Gravity secured penitentiary". Well I am sitting here Yes, But coming this Weekend, if not the following Weekend, I will be taking into the Air. I am so unsure of Myself, Heck I am so insecure of My abilities. But in Fact I used to be quite good at Flying. But now while I know that I am not a Poser in the strict definition of the Word. Heck if I were a poser, I would Load My Predator up onto My Truck and Drive around merly looking the part of an HG Pilot who had the Greatest King-Posted Glider ever Made, but failed to Fly it. Well actually I could not do the; "Driving Around" for I do not have My Drivers License, I have not had My License since not long after I Pounded, March Twenty Eight, 2010. <My attending Kaiser doctors contacted the DMV, and rendered My License in-valid.

Ok I want to apologize for talking about Flying, Flying doing improper Flights. Such as Flying XC. Flying has in my Mind is like looking at Girls and Contemplating having {SAID GIRL} one of You said; "DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFERENT FOLKS" But Ginger over Mary Ann? Come-on get real. That comparison was no race. Mary Ann Blew Doors, Mary Ann was just so smoking Hot. But when One Compares the performance capabilities of a Predator to the best performing King-Posted Glider around. There is, and when i am able to Fly my predator, there Will be no comparison. That is not an opinion Bob. Thast is just reality.
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Re: Flying XC Question

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:47 am

Chris McKeon wrote:Ok, I must saw that I am very interested in what those Three Guys seem to have. I will call what they have on their Backs. Hang Glider Back-Packs.

They are Finsterwalder hang gliders. Here are a few links:

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Re: Flying XC Question

Postby Chris McKeon » Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:17 am

I am interested. Well I have thought so Many times in the Past when I was Flying Xc Miles from a road. I would get Low, sometimes way too low. I have been down so low on occasion that I was able to make out individual Birds roosting upon Tree limbs. But somehow I was able to shift Mt Predator into; {CLIMB MODE} I was alweats able to Get back Up. But I know that the Days that I will be able to do that, to get back up even though I was so low, that I really should of be thinking about doing a DBY and landing. i mean the Day must come when I will be standing on the ground wishing that I was still up in the air. I interested in how well these Gliders Perform. has anyone flown one? Please share Your experiences regarding Flying one of these Gliders.
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