Bill,
Bob wrote:That will naturally involve determining whether the Board feels that Joe Faust was treated unjustly by Jack Axaopoulos since that's a key part of the quoted text.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the above quote.
This has to do with Bob misrepresenting my beliefs on the subject.
This has to do with Bob misrepresenting my motivations.
This has to do with Bob making a claim of what my beliefs and motivations were as the truth after I have clearly stated what my beliefs and motives were, contrary to Bob’s declaration.
This has to do with Bob’s continuing promotion of this propaganda about my beliefs and motivations.
This is about Bob defaming me with lies slandering my name and reputation.
The specific violation claim against Bob is found under “Registration” and is as follows:
You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither “US Hawks Hang Gliding Association” nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.
The request is:
A retraction and an apology from Bob Kuczewski and the US Hawks Board.
Bob Kuczewski and the US Hawks Board should also publicly apologize to Frank Colver and Tom ‘Red” Howard and the Hang Gliding Community for Bob Kuczewski’ behavior in this matter.
If you actually believe the terms of your registration agreement, Bob Kuczewski should resign from the US Hawks Board and be banned from the US Hawks forum for violation of the registration agreement as he has slandered my name and reputation.
Statements on the US Hawk Forum:
Hopefully the following time line will help the Board track the communication and understand my position on the matter and how Bob’s has misrepresented my belief about the subject at hand.
On Dec 03, 2018 I solicited Joe’s thoughts and feelings on the matter in the most neutral way possible. Bob responded with a snide comment about me requesting Joe to beg for my support. Bob’s representation was not in my intent. I merely wanted to know Joe’s point of view as he had be silent.
Bob stated: “Besides, Joe already told you what he wanted with his own actions. Joe was posting about USHGRS on hanggliding.org because he wanted to be posting about USHGRS on hanggliding.org. Do you really need to ask him to tell you that?”
Bob continued with:
“Don't try to put Joe in a position to give YOU an excuse to not do what YOU know YOU should do.”
On Dec 03, 2018 I posted to Bob in my reply:
Bob, you are out of line.
Don’t tell me what I believe and don’t believe.
I continued to explain that Jack owned and controlled his own website in that post.
In that post I clearly told Bob he was out line and my response indicated that I did not agree with his assessment of what I believed or should believe. I had not heard directly from Joe so I did not know what Joe really believed.
On Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:07 pm I posted:
Not only was I posting in Joe’s defense, I was pushing the limit in defending Bob Kuczewski and other pilots made comments that if I kept that up I would be banned too. I spoke the truth and could care less if I am banned.
On Dec 20, 2018 Bob posted:
Frank Colver, Michael Grisham, and Tom Howard were all happily posting about their own interests during the period that Joe Faust was being banned. I know they all knew of the situation because I personally contacted each of them. Some of them did post in opposition to Joe's banning, but they backed down when Jack threatened them. Then they (particularly Frank Colver and Tom Howard) continued to post in their own interests while ignoring the injustice being done to Joe. I personally find this shameful and I've stated that. I plan to continue stating that.
The above comment by Bob is after three weeks and seven posts of me explaining my position about Joe being banned from hanggliding.org. In reviewing those posts it should be clear to a rational human being that I support Joe and the USHGRS, but I also recognize Jacks property rights in his ownership of hanggliding.org. Furthermore on Dec 11, 2018 I declared that “I spoke the truth and could care less if I am banned.”
At no time has Jack ever personally threatened me in a private communication or a public statement. I have never been threatened by Jack or felt threatened by Jack. This is something clearly made up by Bob.
Then on December 23, 2018 Bob called me. The first thing out of my mouth was telling Bob he was out of line. I used very strong words. I have provided the US Hawks Board with an account of that phone conversation:
On December 23, 2018 Bob Kuczewski called me on the phone. The phone conversation was 3 hours 9 minutes and 41 seconds. Specifically, in that phone conversation with Bob Kuczewski, when he brought up the subject of me being afraid to speak up out of fear from being banned from hanggliding.org., I stated, “There was not a neuron or synaptic firing in my brain that even considered Jack banning me from hanggliding.org if I spoke up for Joe Faust.” I continued and stated “if I was concerned with being banned, I certainly would not have been mentioning you or defending you in direct defiance to Jack’s ban on posts referencing BobK.” There was complete silence on phone. Bob had no reply. That is the Absolute Truth.
After three weeks of postings and a three plus hour phone call you would hope a rational human being would have an understanding of my position on Joe being banned from hanggliding.org and that the threat of my own personal banning from hanggliding.org was not a consideration in my actions in the matter. It never even crossed my mind. Bob was clearly informed of that fact.
So I was surprised when on Feb 06, 2019 Bob posted:
Here's the truest analogy. Frank Colver, Tom "Red" Howard, and Mike Grisham were all aware that Joe Faust was being unjustly treated by Jack Axaopoulos ("sg"). They were all aware that Joe's voice was being silenced. And yet they all chose to protect their own ability to "hang out in Jack's living room" rather than stand in solidarity with Joe.
There's no truer analogy ... than the truth.
This is a complete fabrication of the truth by Bob. So, after three months Bob is still telling me what I believe and don’t believe. Sorry Bob, I can tell the world with my own lips and writings what I believe. I don’t need Bullsh-t Bob to promote a Lying Fraud about me.
The following are my posts from the Thread Wall of Shame in banning of Joe Faust from hanggliding.o with the links. You can view Bob’s replies in the thread.
Re: Wall of Shame in banning of Joe Faust from hanggliding.o
Postby magentabluesky » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:10 pm
Bob, listen to your friends. After all, they are your friends.
Focus on the positve goals of the US Hawks.
magentabluesky
Michael Grisham
Link
Re: Wall of Shame in banning of Joe Faust from hanggliding.o
Postby magentabluesky » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:59 pm
I would like to hear from Joe on the subject.
He has only one post on this thread - the "Boom" post.
Many of us in the Hang Gliding Community support Joe and appreciate his contributions.
Your thoughts and feelings, Joe?
magentabluesky
Michael Grisham
Link
Re: Wall of Shame in banning of Joe Faust from hanggliding.o
Postby magentabluesky » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:42 pm
Bob, you are out of line.
Don’t tell me what I believe and don’t believe.
******Edited****** (See Link for Full Post)
As far as Jack’s website, it is Jack’s website. That is Jack’s domain. He owns it. He is in control of the org. If he engages in censorship or bans people and that is offensive, stop patronizing the website. From my view since Joe has been banned, there has been very little discussion of substance on the org. As Rick has stated, the action that truly matters is on the US Hawks. Stay focused on what really matters.
magentabluesky
Michael Grisham
Link
Re: Wall of Shame in banning of Joe Faust from hanggliding.o
Postby magentabluesky » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:50 pm
Bob,
******Edited****** (See Link for Full Post)
magentabluesky
Michael Grisham
Link
Re: Wall of Shame in banning of Joe Faust from hanggliding.o
Postby magentabluesky » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:41 pm
******Edited****** (See Link for Full Post)
I would venture to say that when Joe Faust was doing world record high jumps, Joe was not focusing on the competition setting the bar at four feet. Joe Faust’s focus was on clearing the bar for his personal best and that was so much higher than anyone else. Joe Faust continues to place the bar even higher in his life’s goals and delivers.
Stop setting the bar so damn low.
Focus on what matters most and deliver.
magentabluesky
Michael Grisham
Link
Hang gliding is in more trouble than I thought:
Re: Hang gliding is in more trouble than I thought.
Postby magentabluesky » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:27 pm
“Can you quote for us what rule was in place?”
hg.org is private property.
Bob Kuczewski wrote:
Jack Axaopoulos is the operator of hanggliding.org and uses the screen name "sg".
LinkNot only is Jack the operator, Jack is the owner. Jack is the property owner of HG.org. Jack has property rights in his ownership of hg.org.
Joe Faust wrote:
Upon studying such linked information, a property owner may choose to exclude that particular pilot from use of involved land; property owners will vary on their personal choices; USHGRS.org will not make the decision for the property owner or land manager.
Link (From Hg.org)
Joe Faust has verbally stated he recognizes and respects a property owners rights to exclude a pilot’s use of the private property.
I rather enjoyed Joe’s posts on hg.org and hated it when Jack would lock threads and place them in the basement. A thread was locked on the Oz Report after Ben Reese posted a picture depicting flamingo poop in response to Joe's post. If you want to have the last word and stop the discussion drop some flamingo poo.
We can all be upset that Joe is excluded and is not able to exercise his free speech rights on the hg.org, but the hg.org is private property, period. No, I do not like the fact Joe is banned.
If you don’t like it, don’t fly there. Simple!
McDonalds Throws Out Homeless Man Video
magentabluesky
Michael Grisham
Link
Re: Hang gliding is in more trouble than I thought.
Postby magentabluesky » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:07 pm
Bob wrote:
I'm sure you don't like it because you're named as one of the people who posted merrily along without taking a stand for Joe.
Bob, I went back and read my posts last night.
To be quite frank, I cannot believe the support I poured out in Joe’s defense. Go back and read my posts.
Not only was I posting in Joe’s defense, I was pushing the limit in defending Bob Kuczewski and other pilots made comments that if I kept that up I would be banned too. I spoke the truth and could care less if I am banned.The thing to recognize, I am not telling you what Christmas Decorations to put up in your house. You can put up a Christmas tree, stockings, a Menorah, or whatever is your personal choice. That is your home and I respect your choice. Shaming people to your persuasion is what Democrats do. You must have spent too much time in California, you are turning blue. Go visit Sam in Texas and hangout with some Republicans.
I am holding my head up high.
In the mean time you have your head so buried in the microscope analyzing the microbial bacteria of the manure mound you have lost sight of the landscape and are missing the big picture of what is currently happening in the hang gliding community.
******Edited****** (See Link for Full Post)
magentabluesky
Michael Grisham
Link
Bob's Post on Theory of mind:
Re: Theory of mind
Postby Bob Kuczewski » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:02 pm
Rick Masters wrote:
I saw it coming when BobK started attacking our members because they wouldn't post on a doppelganger forum.
That statement is incorrect. I didn't criticise those (like yourself and Bill Cummings) who wouldn't post on hanggliding.org. I criticised those who did regularly post on hanggliding.org but failed to stand up against the injustice they witnessed done to Joe Faust on that forum.
[/b]Frank Colver, Michael Grisham, and Tom Howard were all happily posting about their own interests during the period that Joe Faust was being banned. I know they all knew of the situation because I personally contacted each of them. Some of them did post in opposition to Joe's banning, but they backed down when Jack threatened them. Then they (particularly Frank Colver and Tom Howard) continued to post in their own interests while ignoring the injustice being done to Joe. I personally find this shameful and I've stated that. I plan to continue stating that.[/b]
To be clear, I find it entirely consistent and honorable for people to simply walk away from such abusive situations. By walking away, you do not feed the abuser. I also find it entirely consistent and honorable for people to continue to speak out against this injustice. That may lead to their own banning, but that is also a very powerful form of speech because others will recognize the growing pattern of injustice and many of them will choose their own consistent and honorable paths. Again, this does not feed the abuser.
What I find to be inconsistent and dishonorable (shameful) is for people to continue feeding the abuser in their own self interest while ignoring what has been done to Joe Faust.
Link
Three days after this post Bob called me for the 3 hour 9 minutes and 41 seconds phone call.
On December 23, 2018 Bob Kuczewski called me on the phone. The phone conversation was 3 hours 9 minutes and 41 seconds. Specifically, in that phone conversation with Bob Kuczewski, when he brought up the subject of me being afraid to speak up out of fear from being banned from hanggliding.org., I stated, “There was not a neuron or synaptic firing in my brain that even considered Jack banning me from hanggliding.org if I spoke up for Joe Faust.” I continued and stated “if I was concerned with being banned, I certainly would not have been mentioning you or defending you in direct defiance to Jack’s ban on posts referencing BobK.” There was complete silence on phone. Bob had no reply. That is the Absolute Truth
Link
Then on Feb 06, 2019 Bob posted:
Re: MoHawk Uprising
Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:51 am
Free wrote:
A truer analogy would be ...
Here's the truest analogy. Frank Colver, Tom "Red" Howard, and Mike Grisham were all aware that Joe Faust was being unjustly treated by Jack Axaopoulos ("sg"). They were all aware that Joe's voice was being silenced. And yet they all chose to protect their own ability to "hang out in Jack's living room" rather than stand in solidarity with Joe.
There's no truer analogy ... than the truth.
Link
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