[DaveSchy]

Just filled out the waiver to LA. The last (and only) time I flew Dockweiler was 1976, my first flight in my brand new Manta Windlord! I was 24. (I grew up in Reseda)

[DaveSchy]

This was my reply to CJ posting her "list" to CBCC email list...
>
> .
>
Interesting list CJ!

I think this is not really the kind of self regulation that has allowed hang glider pilots our legal access to airspace without FAA intervention. It is simply the USHPA promoting it's current flawed agenda, and a fairly desperate attempt to keep the corporation solvent.

Please remember, I firmly believe the set up area and launch is NOT an appropriate place to pontificate or enforce this issue, that is horribly unsafe, counterproductive, needlessly aggressive, and a terrible distraction to one's focus on the task at hand. Please, don't do it there!

Qualified pilots have FAA legal access to airspace, regardless of politics. Trespass is a completely different issue. Trespass does not apply to airspace.

(See Outdoor Recreation Act).RCWs > Title 4 > Chapter 4.24 > Section 4.24.210

Nothing in FAR Part 103 requires "insurance" or membership in a corporation, and foot launch access to airspace was assured because of the self regulated aspect of hang gliding in the early years.

A partial list of some other "expired" pilots flying at this very moment without "papers" include:

Mike Pringle

Bill Bennett

Jeff Bowman

Chris Bulger

Steven Holte

Gene Matthews

Art Peters

Bob Wills.

Let's not ever forget their contributions to our self regulation of truly "free flight".

Please consider taking a look this winter, at

www.ushawks.org

for a different perspective.

Or not!

Holiday Regards,

18966

[FiascoDave]

Thank you for responding to CJ’s apparent attempt to confront non-ushpa members if they fly “our insured sites”.

We put up and ultimately challenged that kind of behavior with good success at Woodrat by RVHPA “leaders”. It’s an on-going effort to educate all pilots that USHPA and it’s chapters have no authority over any pilot or any site. Only the FAA & landowners have authority respectively.

In writing you tonight, I read your BIO. You & I have a shared HG history! I too began my flying behind the Olympia beer warehouses east of I5 in 1976. I was a young USARMY enlisted and stationed at Ft Lewis. Flew a Jobe Standard,16. Then as WW SST 212 which I brought to southern Oregon where I joined in formation of original RVHGA with Jeff Van Datta, Doug Hildreth and others.

And I too am still very active HGing, T2, ATOS & other flying stuff. I withdrew from USHPA & the current pg club here after trying to reason with them for years that a national mandatory insurance scheme would destroy HG health & growth... to no avail.

You, I and many other old-school HG pilots like Frank Colver can and must continue to speak up in opposition to the current USHPA leadership and their attempts to profit & control/regulate the sport we’ve loved for all our lives!

So, thank you

All the best

Dave Palmer

[Bob Kuczewski]

Dave and Dave!!



By the way, the US Hawks could always use another Chapter if you feel like organizing one. Just say the word, and I'll set you up with your own Chapter subforum. As with everything else on the US Hawks ... it's as free as flight was meant to be!!!

[Bob Kuczewski]

Frank's letter (see opening post of this topic) has sparked a number of good discussions on hanggliding.org.

It started with posts by miraclepieco ( ) last week. Mark Forbes ("mgforbes") was quick to jump in to try to squelch the discussions (I think that's part of his job description), but he's looking like a one legged man in a butt kicking contest.

Some of the USHPA loyalists (Ryan "AIRTHUG" Voight, Jonathan "NMERider" Dietch, and Paul H.) have tried to come to Mark's defense. But "bigbird", "Underdog", Mark Webber ("SeeMarkFly"), "Seahawk", "h2os", "lizzard", "mtpilot", "FatBird", "entelin", and Mike ("SlopeSkimmer") Jefferson have all made strong points that Mark Forbes could not refute.

If you read Mark Forbes posts carefully, you'll find all kinds of half truths and deceptions to support his case. For example, he tries to put down Dockweiler as a flying site and he says it's not a "USHPA insured" site. But he somehow leaves out the fact that it was USHPA who tightened the screws on Joe Greblo to keep non-USHPA members from flying there. Mark Forbes is a master of deception. But when you know the facts, it's easy to see through his dishonesty.

For anyone reading this who hasn't been banned from "Jack's living room" (a.k.a. hanggliding.org), I encourage you to join in the discussions there. Here are the links:

No-Membership, No-Insurance Flying Agreement with City
http://forum.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=35775

MN's recreational land use laws
http://forum.hanggliding.org/viewtopic. ... 98#p401555

Non-USHPA Tandem Exemption
http://forum.hanggliding.org/viewtopic. ... 73#p401527

If you have any questions about the history or the facts, please feel free to contact me on the forum or privately. I'll be happy to share what I know.

The truth is coming out. It's a good time to build on that momentum!

[SamKellner]

The truth is coming out. It's a good time to build on that momentum!

We need a smiley doing happy dance !

[Frank Colver]

Happy Wrights' 1st powered flight, Kittyhawk, 114th anniversary today everyone.

OMG! They didn't have insurance! We couldn't fly there today without it!

MARK FORBES previous feelings about the importance of Dockweiler Beach. This was after I had offered to donate $25,000 to the RRG fund if USHPA would make the insurance available to any pilot to purchase without joining USHPA as a full member. In turning down the offer and suggesting that I might need to use that money to save the Dockweiler site here is the exact quote copied from his e-mail reply to me:

. I appreciate your support of that historic site, and if you can help him out in any way I'm all for it. While we'd appreciate your contribution to the RRG, given a choice between that and keeping Windsports and Dockweiler beach, I personally would rather see you put the money into the site.


I agree with Mark's previous position on Dockweiler as stated above.

Frank

[Bob Kuczewski]

Happy Wrights' 1st powered flight, Kittyhawk, 114th anniversary today everyone.

Happy anniversary to you to Frank!! Weren't you there then?   

OMG! They didn't have insurance! We couldn't fly there today without it!

There's a hundred years of human progress for you.   

This was after I had offered to donate $25,000 to the RRG fund if USHPA would make the insurance available to any pilot to purchase without joining USHPA as a full member. ...

Frank, I haven't thanked you publicly for that generous offer because I hadn't seen an opportunity to do so. But I think this is it. Your generosity is truly amazing. I hope everyone that's ever flown and ever does fly recognizes your willingness to help the sport - not for profit - but purely for your love of flight.

It is shameful that USHPA turned down your generous offer just so they could continue to punish people they didn't like - for whatever reasons. That action alone showed that the people running USHPA today are not there to help the sport. They're there to serve their own personal interests. As for Mark Forbes, I don't want to tarnish this post with a single word from him. He doesn't deserve it.

Thanks Frank. You're a true friend to those who love to fly. I've seen it at Dockweiler. I've seen it at Los Angeles County. I've seen it at USHPA. Thanks for being my friend as well.

[Bob Kuczewski]

I've included a recent quote from Mark Forbes below. Mark Forbes is a very slick writer, but if you're a critical reader, you'll see the real message for what it is - dishonesty.

For starters, Mark's message is full of statements that are disingenuous (at best). For example, he states over and over that he supports pilots flying without USHPA:

... that's great!
... that's wonderful.
... I hope these "no membership, no insurance" pilots have a good time flying at the beach.

Does anyone really believe that Mark Forbes thinks it's "great" and "wonderful" that we can fly at Dockweiler without USHPA membership? Does anyone really believe that Mark Forbes is hoping that "no membership, no insurance" pilots have a good time flying at the beach? If so, then where are his previous actions backing that? There are none. He's lying. In fact, it was USHPA that pressured Joe Greblo into keeping non-USHPA members from flying there. That's what forced us to bring the matter to Los Angeles County in the first place. For Mark Forbes to act as if he's happy about that shows how dishonest he can be.

Then he piles on more dishonesty and sarcasm directed at putting down Dockweiler as a flying site:

I hope these "no membership, no insurance" pilots have a good time flying at the beach. It's a nice place for basic training on a big, slow glider. I've only been there once, and it wasn't flyable.

It's a site for "basic training"? How about the fine - and highly advanced - art of soaring such a site? Joe Greblo's school only allows advanced pilots to do that. That's not "basic training", yet Mark Forbes doesn't mention that at all. More dishonesty.

Mark's comments about "a big, slow glider" are also misleading. I've soared there in my Falcon, and I've personally witnessed a pilot soar there for nearly an hour in a double-surfaced glider. More dishonesty from Forbes.

And that last line: "I've only been there once, and it wasn't flyable" may be true for him, but that wasn't his point. His point was to put the site down and minimize the fact that it's been freed from USHPA's grip. Mark knows very well that it's an extremely fun site with soaring possibilities and lots of exposure to introduce the public to hang gliding. But that doesn't fit his agenda, so he leaves it out.

Mark Forbes is the embodiment of what's wrong with USHPA. Here's his full quote:

http://forum.hanggliding.org/viewtopic. ... 02#p401542

Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:15 pm

If a someone wants to obtain land and let pilots fly there, that's great! Dockweiler is not now, and has not in the past been a USHPA-insured flying site. For many years it was closed, and Joe Greblo was the key to getting it reopened for training. He had to provide the city with insurance coverage as a condition of that reopening. In fact, the impetus for our RRG formation was his insurance renewal; he tried to renew his policy and the Lloyd's insurers told him they were exiting the business. That's when he contacted the USHPA office, and me, and we started digging into the problem.

If some pilots have obtained permission to fly there, outside of Windsports' normal business hours, that's wonderful. There are lots of places that we fly where the landowner does not require coverage under our policy. There are other places where they do....and those we refer to as "insured sites". Insured sites are restricted to USHPA members only, but you don't need to be a member of USHPA to fly everywhere else.

I encourage clubs NOT to extend site insurance to landowners unless it's the only way to gain access to a launch or LZ. There's no point in adding a landowner to our policy if they don't feel the need for coverage. But if a club needs that tool in order to open a site, it's there for them.

I hope these "no membership, no insurance" pilots have a good time flying at the beach. It's a nice place for basic training on a big, slow glider. I've only been there once, and it wasn't flyable.

MGF

[DaveSchy]

This is a perfect example of the Forbesian Doublespeak that has taken over U$HPA. Locally, Extreme Exxxxoner Loopy Schlepperston has been incurably infected.

Symptoms include confusion, double vision, speaking in tongues, bullshitting non stop, delusions of grandeur, narcissism and extreme irreversible duplicity. Possibly fatal if allowed to progress to a double "Fobonethink" condition (indicated by financial support for the RRG).

Treatment options are limited to a frontal lobotomy (or being heartily laughed at and summarily and completely ignored).

The Forbisher is a corporate "Bored" member of the RRG, (paid, unpaid?? oh... another special privileged financial and corporate secret!) and proud to say so in his spiel explaining his unopposed bid for re-erection to Region 1 Most Grand Fella.