[JoeF]

HG without paid instructors and without commercial HG schools
This topic is for exploring HG in USA without paid HG instructors and without commercial hang gliding schools.
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Suppose today one looked out and saw that there was not one paid HG instructor and not one commercial HG school. What then could the HG scene go? Express scenarios. Ask questions about the scene. Propose something. Guess. Estimate futures. There might not be any need for paid instruction or commercial schooling to grow hang gliding in USA.

Below is a start by me. And below is post by another with a another perspective
There are differences. What say YOU?

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I'll start.
1. I entered hang gliding without paying an instructor and without going to a commercial HG school. I had many avenues of instruction and many types of schooling that accompanied my drive to advance my hang gliding. Some of these avenues started with conversations, letters, and construction meetings; some were meeting on the field with flight experiments. I would extend my gifts and talents without charge; and I received gifts and talents from others who were growing their own hang gliding involvements.

2. The advent of the Internet multiplied the opportunity to get in association with others of similar HG interests. Sharing tips, lessons, plans, observations, field operations ... all played to move HG forward in my life.

3. I see no barrier that would prevent a person interested in HG to fulfill their interest under the assumptions forming this topic thread. They may learn, model, test, experiment, grow in fitness, and grow in their hang gliding skills. They may talk with others and observe others in HG; they may share their time, gifts, and talents in association with others who are doing HG. There need be no rush; indeed, the methodical growth of the HG activity in one's life might be the strongest ticket to a robust recreational HG hobby or sport. What is the hurry? One may proceed at one's own pace, especially if not spurred by commercial interests and constraints.

4. A culture of reciprocal mentorship may produce wise HG pilots.

5. Vanillaization dependent on mindset that paid instruction and commercial schooling might be a source of age attrition in HG. Differently having to grow one's own hobby/sport by study, communications, sharing, fitness training, and craft involving may well generate a wide variety of niche HG activity that might in turn set the scene for many centers of excited involvement. Inbreeding into the needs of a commercial flow may die as competing commercial powers play. Rather, dependency on one's discerned interests and talents may give a profound vitality that attracts others to such vitality and variety.

4. Recreational hang gliding occurs even without such being named such. Recreation groups may form to pool talents, ideas, materials, plans, cares, and times of open meeting. Pools of documents, plans, tips, and materials may be formed by one or two or more individual pilots. And then those pools may be shared in different ways from one pool center to another. Group observations and critiques may be formed.

5. Honoring niche HG activity could become the norm.

6. Gliders may be shared through various formula. Shared maintenance. Shared repair. Robust logging. Taking turns. Stay individual self-responsible recreationists.

7. Have national pool of ever-growing tests to ride parallel with anyone's growth. But have exactly one rating: HGP.

8. Have a culture of safety. Study all incidents in common. Have open forums where things are discussed in detail.

9. Aim for millions of launch and landing sites as opposed to a few controlled commercial or charged sites. Aim for equity for HG in the recreation and parks world. Build well respectful relations with land mangers relative to the 51-state immunity for land managers when charge and invitation are absent (allowing upon asking). Play at parks as a citizen. Learn from each other. Leave events or organized gatherings to those who choose to organize events and gatherings.

10. Grow pride in solid skills and knowledge. Bury the rating systems, badge systems, culture of gates. Let one take tests in knowledge and skill without having ratings. Encourage continual learning.

11. Have a culture where the person most important in one's HG is the HGP that one is, not someone else. This very well could be the foundation for super honoring others in hang gliding history; honor others by adopting the wisdom that they radiated. Find the gems of Otto Lilienthal. Find the gems of anyone who has published a HG gem; honor them, especially by incorporating the wisdom involved. Put aside any found unwise notes. Encourage by example a piloting participation that is not based on pride or peer pressure, but on good piloting.

12. We may not need any "careers" in the hang gliding world, only HGPs honoring their recreational interests with their best selves. A HGP subsisting on whether or not someone else has a business might be better off doing something other than HG.

13. Wing running, Safe-Splat, busable presto-up HG packs, and micro hang gliding may each bring HG to the consciousness of a huge portion of the population. Plans for DIY busable presto-up Safe-Splat HGs combined with the Internet and wise self-soar fun exampling could go far in forming a huge future for HG. Permitting coming eHG may close the deal. And all without paid instruction, without commercial schools, and without 3PL addiction. Respect the premises immunity and be a great neighbor to others as one patiently wisely builds one's hobby/sport recreational HG. Soak up the wisdom of all who are retiring.

~ Joe Faust

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On balance is a view just published by Joe Greblo:

The Most Important Man in Hang Gliding Fri, Nov 20 2015, 1:53:06 pm in Oz Report

My thoughts on growing our sport take me in a different direction than asking how do we better promote our sport.

It could be argued that the most important man in the development of our sport is John Harris of Kitty Hawk Kites. Year after year he encourages and trains many young, goal oriented hang gliding instructors. He has single handedly produced more instructors in the last 40 years than the rest of the world combined. Many of the america's largest hg school owners began as instructors at Kitty Hawk Kites.

Even so, few of these young, new instructors choose to establish careers in hang gliding. Why? And if they don't, who will?

The primary reasons for a shrinking hang gliding population are a reduction of both instructor talent and entrepreneurial economic opportunity.

Today there is little economic entrepreneurial opportunity in the hang gliding industry. For any person to consider a career as a hang gliding instructor, he/she would have to see a reason to invest time and money here, rather than some other other potential career.

1. Over the years, more and more hang gliding schools and instructors have thrown in the towel and are not being replaced by new instructors. This means less and less effort, less and less capital expenditure, and less and less promotion is being directed towards getting students into our sport. We are past the "tipping point" on this downward spiral in new participation in hang gliding.

2. The average age of a hang gliding student is over 30. The average age of a hg pilot is well over 40. Most everyone in these age brackets that can afford the initial high costs of hang gliding, already has a job or career they are unwilling to give up for a risky, non-lucrative career in hang gliding. In addition, those in this age bracket are more likely to have already developed financial assets they are unwilling to risk with the potential accident liability in our sport.

3. High school and college aged men and women generally can't afford thousands of dollars needed to learn to hg and purchase their gear, so we have a very small pool of potential entrepreneur instructors.

4. Training sites near large population bases are few and far between, further reducing entrepreneurial opportunity.

5. Already trained hang glider pilots have little incentive to promote or support hang gliding schools as these pilots find the instructional process is no longer necessary, and online equipment suppliers lacking the overhead associated with a school, can offer products at lower prices.

The million dollar question…what needs to be done?

At least the following 2 problems must be solved if we are have any significant effect on the future growth of our sport.

1. Find a way to reduce the cost of hang gliding training for high school and college students as they are the only ones likely to invest in hang gliding as a business opportunity.

2. Create entrepreneurial opportunities for young, goal oriented pilots to become flight instructors and school owners.

Although difficult and daunting, solutions are possible; but only if we recognize and confront the above obstacles and stop trying to resuscitate a dying system that lacks a foundation of talent and economic opportunity.

While all the traditional, promotional efforts obviously have some merit, I believe new efforts need to focus on developing opportune business environments by subsidizing the cost of training of young pilots, and acquiring new training sites and flying sites. Those with experience and talents at fundraising and writing grant requests of industry and government are truly needed, as are those with interest and experience finding and opening new training sites. Schools and instructors should consider lowering their training rates for teens, serious about learning, as parents can't afford the high costs of instruction and equipment. This would also provide incentive for aerospace and other industries and governments to award grant moneys towards low cost training programs for the young.

A hang gliding school in southern California has experimented and had some success with 1/2 price lessons for teenagers that make strong commitments towards learning.

Let me close by saying that I believe there is no greater need in the future of our sport than this one as I'm one who's close to retiring and see no one coming to take over my role as a producer of new pilots.
~ Joe Greblo

[dhmartens]

Years ago I talked to a IT professional from India and how he trained to become a programmer and thus work in the USA on h1B visa status.

He got his Microsoft MSCE certification by studying the book at home (no training classes), and playing with the free bootleg software. When he was proficient, he went to a testing center center in India and paid to take the test (Approx $150 today) where they watch and make sure you don't cheat. When you pass the test you get your certification.

Hang gliding can use this business model where you must pass a test before the school will accept you. You possibly must fly an online simulater or (hang gliding computer game) and score high enough to show you can fly in artificial conditions. When you do attend a school the purpose could be mainly to log flying hours and fine tune your skillset. You could train with a gopro and gps so each flight would be uploaded to the cloud where other instructors could critique and possible issue rating points or advise.


what is MSCE:
An MCSE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer) is someone who has passed exams about the Microsoft Windows NT operating system, related desktop systems, networking, and Microsoft's BackOffice server products. To prepare for the exams, you can take courses at a certified training company location, in certified courses in a high school or college, or through self-study at Microsoft's self-study Web site or through certified training materials.

The Indian programmer worked a few jobs in Singapore before coming to the US.

[Frank Colver]

Oh God! Is this what hang gliding has come to?

I guess those of us who built gliders, started by running off small hills, and worked our way up to the mountains, didn't learn to fly properly.

I'm not against instruction, one can always benefit from other's experience, but let's keep it simple to match the simple form of flight we have come to know and love.

Where are the training hills where one can still go and teach oneself to hang glide? We need many more of those and fewer commercial schools and bureaucracy.

Frank

[Rick Masters]

I bought a Seagull III in 1978 and started hanging out at hang gliding sites to meet pilots. These guys were real friendly and I offered to take them to their sites in my cars, which I rigged to carry hang gliders. They were happy to train me in the basics when we'd go to the sand dunes and I was soaring after 6 months. I never paid anyone to teach me anything about flying. Money went to gas, gear, pizza and beer.

I don't mind the idea of commercialized training but I feel no obligation at all to support it. If someone really wants to learn hang gliding, I've always told them to hang out with hang glider pilots. I believe that is the best way. Responsible pilots will take a newbie under their wing and not allow him to get ahead of himself. I've seen this a million times.

I've also come to the conclusion that we don't need to grow hang gliding. Hang gliding is super special and people with survivor skills are best left to seek it out. Some people are not suited to fly hang gliders, so encouraging them to do so is not a good idea. This is where a lot of accidents come from: through commercialization and promotion.

We all swallowed the kool-aid about making the sport grow and prosetlyzing its wonders. But I think now it was a mistake. The commercialization of nearly every aspect of hang gliding (and paragliding) has brought freeflight to its knees. We should have remained a tight-knit group with shared values instead of re-creating the Tower of Babel.

There will always be hang gliding. When hang gliding is outlawed, outlaws will fly hang gliders. I've never been worried about it disappearing. I've always worried, instead, about it being taken over by bureaucrats who would prevent me from doing it.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Thanks for reviving this topic Doug!!

I had read Joe's original post and I found myself torn in two directions. I have learned most sports by teaching myself or with the help of friends (riding a bicycle, swimming, skiing, snow boarding, surfing, sailing, tennis, kiteboarding, windsurfing, RC flying, and probably a few others that I can't remember right now). I did have to pay for lessons for SCUBA diving, sky diving, hang gliding, paragliding, and flying airplanes.

I think the answer to both Joe Faust and Joe Greblo is that there is no single answer because people are different. There are people who love the joy and adventure of exploring on their own with the help of those they find along the way. But there are also people who want a sure and steady path led by those with the "proper credentials". And even the same person may choose different paths in different circumstances.

The problem we have in hang gliding is exactly what Rick said:

I've always worried, instead, about it being taken over by bureaucrats who would prevent me from doing it.

That is exactly - EXACTLY - what has happened to me. And it's happened because Joe Faust's well-described path of self-learning has been exterminated by the path of instruction that Joe Greblo has described. USHPA has effectively exterminated the possibility of anyone taking Joe Faust's path. Indeed, even though I've taken the path of instruction myself, I am still excluded from most popular sites because USHPA's tight control extends even beyond the learning phase of the sport.

As Rick said, I also don't mind the idea of commercialized training but USHPA has killed off the alternative path. That eliminates from our sport the many people who might have taken the path that was taken by Rick and Frank and Joe Faust and so many others.

[Rick Masters]

USHPA has killed off the alternative path.

More likely, they've opened up a new path.
One they'll have no power over.
USHGA and the FFF made a serious error in their mission statements by leaving a doorway open for the marginalization of hang gliding.
The USHPA made this a magnitude worse by focusing the role of an enabler of rampant commercialization - even to the point of eliminating the Special Observer to force more newbies into schools (where they were pushed toward paragliding).
They forgot, it seems to me, their foremost role as a guide and safety monitor.
I even read their insurance chairman post that safety wasn't their role.
But you can't make up a new role every time you change chairs.
R.V. Wills set the focus on safety in the early days of the USHGA.
Sure, the kids started Wills Wing but his intent could not have been more clear.
The "deadly butterflies" had to become real aircraft and the yahoos had to become real pilots.
That was my USHGA.
That was an organization to be proud of.
But when I came back in 2002, I couldn't recognize it.

[dhmartens]

I think whats working against hang gliding is the Proposition 13 mentality. People care more about (worship) a (wooden box rotting in a field) real estate, over hang gliding. They put more effort in propping up house values than promoting hang gliding. Just look back in the 70s when a house costed $25,000 that same house in 1999 had an asking price of $675,000. Paragliding is a direct response to this value system. Today we also have a "Gig" economy where there is no job security.

As far as having no flight schools, How will pilots find out about PIO teaching them selves? Do you want them to find out the hard way like in the good old days?

[Bob Kuczewski]

As far as having no flight schools, How will pilots find out about PIO teaching them selves? Do you want them to find out the hard way like in the good old days?

Good question.     


The US Hawks Board recently voted to approve a mission statement proposed by Joe Faust that explicitly uses the phrase "recreational hang gliding". I initially planned to vote agaimst that because I think schools and instructors are important to the sport. But after some consideration, I was convinced that the mission statement doesn't exclude support for such commercial operations. It just emphasizes that our support of commercial operations must serve recreational hang gliding. That case can easily be made for schools operated by people like Joe Greblo, Rob McKenzie, and John Heiney.

Additionally, we will strongly support the traditional mentoring model as exemplified by the work of Bill Cummings and Robin Hastings in the RGSA. The attention they devote to new pilots is excellent, and since they're not trying to turn a profit, there's no rush for them to move on to the next student. They're building a community and not a customer base.

[JoeF]

Huge alternative space:
Non-commercial schooling, training, teaching, learning, practicing, mentoring, coaching, and observing may be accentuated, bolstered, sharpened, discussed, lived, practiced, shared, ... One need not settle for a narrow "commercial-schooling-only scene" for recreational hang gliding. Nurture modeling. PIO (pilot-induced oscillation) exhibition may be done in models, by experience pilot friends at adequate altitude,and in simulators. Practicing in hung ground rigs (for relaxing, death-grip mitigation, and control sequencing) may be part of recreational hang gliding (RHG) culture. Grow a dependence on the non-commercial options and net a huge system that has an effective thickness of effect that far out affects what commercial schooling could give. Cultivate a slower more methodical pace through buddy and mentor habits; value knowledge building, attitude, watchfulness, assistance giving, observing, logging and journaling, discuss openly the pitfalls of rush and peer pressure and ego-badging, laud fitness in all feeding sectors, celebrate knowledge testing, discuss things in national RHG forums, treasure the examination of any incident, have extensive free online knowledge tests, ... The growing and nurturing of the non-commercial options takes decision, action, participation, and progressive nurturing. Learning from others need not be a commercial deal. The mission statement of U. S. Hawks Hang Gliding Association include "serve" as a core sector; serving up online knowledge tests might become part of the story. All such does not remove plays by commerce.

Treat every other pilot as your instructor; discern what is good and poor instruction by solid knowledge building. Take time to master one's fitness for what is chosen to do.
Collect the wisdom of the ages; collect the guidance of others; prove and discern. Let the full body of the hang gliding community be one's "instructor" and pay for such by investing your time and wits smartly; pay for such broad instruction by building the body of knowledge and making such available to others; use various formats for communicating: field discussions, table talk, written notes, published notes, telephone calls, reviews over little observations. Non-commercial learning does not mean that one starts from scratch bare of the bulk of lessons available in aviation. Pay by focus, study, test, training, discipline to stay within one's limits, listening to others, giving to others.

[dhmartens]

I think Malibu Chris at Sylmar was self-taught. But you are right there is a invisible code that prevents people from talking about their experiences.

I can find no published books on how to self teach. (other than the Cheney book)

Any self taught hang gliders here?
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28358

It is a worthy topic of discussion because there is a knowledge filter in place.
And the free market wants to know.

Sky Raider 1976 has a training scene:
youtu.be/v3mazHx0Z6o?t=39m20s

Here is a story today on how people are spending half of their income on rent
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/09/housings ... -rent.html

This is lending its self to paragliders being more popular with less expensive training, transportation and storage. But the medical bills are higher.