[DarthVader]

Why are board members, and presidents voted in by board members and using board members to elect a new president sounds like a good ol' boys system to me? That leaves too much room for corruption... Alot of pilots feel the same way about this issue isn't it time for a change? and make voting new presidents on a national level and not using secret ballot? I feel it is time for a second Hang Gliding Assosiation and pilots decide who is just and who is not?

[Bill Cummings]

Why are board members, and presidents voted in by board members and using board members to elect a new president sounds like a good ol' boys system to me? That leaves too much room for corruption... Alot of pilots feel the same way about this issue isn't it time for a change? and make voting new presidents on a national level and not using secret ballot? I feel it is time for a second Hang Gliding Assosiation and pilots decide who is just and who is not?

The way I understand it, we vote for the running regional directors, they vote for five directors at large and they all vote for the USHPA president.

I think I have that right Al and I don’t know why we don’t vote for the president of USHPA. I don’t know if there is a good reason for that or not.

As far as the secret ballot goes I believe that is your protection so that no one can retaliate against you for not voting for a certain person or for voting for a certain person.

Let’s say you lived in Utah and you voted against a regional director named --- let’s see--let’s say his name was Ryan Vote and he was an un-cool dude that held a grudge. He might not give you a rating that you deserved. I'm sure no one in Utah would do something like that it is just a hypothetical analogy to explain the protection that a secret ballot affords you. We should be able to know how our regional directors voted on issues that we are concerned with.

[SamKellner]

As far as the secret ballot goes I believe that is your protection so that no one can retaliate against you for not voting for a certain person or for voting for a certain person..

Bill, The Regional Directors Election Ballot is only valid with pages 2 & 3 intact and connected. Now our names and U* #s are on the back of page 2. So, to say that it is a secret ballot leaves a great deal to question. We mark our votes and send it to USHPA with our names on it, on the original mailing lable and the return address.
It does not bother me, that they see who I voted for. To say it is secret and for protection?

We should be able to know how our regional directors voted on issues that we are concerned with

I can agree with this, for sure.
How else do we know, really, who to vote for?
However, we show our vote/hand and they vote in secrecy.


Preflight, Hangcheck, Know You're hooked in,
Sam

[Bill Cummings]

Sam, These concerns were exactly what came up today in a phone conversation with Al.
I expressed that our address page was supposed to be separated from our voting page if everything was done correctly. Later the anonymous votes were supposed to be counted.

I also discussed with Al that awhile back when USHGA was also having us fill out an anonymous survey with questions about what glider we flew, were we considering buying a new glider, what brand would we buy, how many foot launch flights did we do in the last year, how many tow flights had we flown etc.
The anonymous results were later published in “Hang Gliding.”

I devised a little trap. I wrote a letter to the editor that stated a position that I held that was contrary to information that I had stated in the survey.

One of the insider dim wits responded to my letter pointing out my discrepancy which could only have been gleaned if my name was still connect to my anonymous survey. This was my first personal proof that things were not being conducted honorably at USHGA.

I know exactly where you are coming from Sam! I agree!

[SamKellner]

Bill,

That great proof! What a simple test.

Thanks for sharing that episode with us.

Sam

[Bob Kuczewski]

Good posts on an important topic!!   

The voting problem within USHPA is a mess in many ways...

First of all, we should always know how our Directors vote on every issue. After all, we're electing them to represent us, so how can we know whether they're doing that if we can't see their voting records? A voting record for ALL Directors is very important for fixing much of what's wrong with USHPA.

Second, the votes for USHPA officers (President, VP, Secretary, and Treasurer) are done by SECRET BALLOTS of the Directors. This may protect the Directors from hurt feelings (among themselves), but it denies us the ability to know how our own Directors are voting when selecting USHPA's officers. This is WRONG!!

Third, I do believe that secret ballots are appropriate by voters who are only representing themselves. But elected officials aren't voting for themeselves. They're voting for the people who elected them, and those people should ALWAYS be able to tell how their Directors vote (whether they're voting on policy or officers).

Fourth, I also agree that the election processes within USHPA are suspect. The front and back pages of my ballot last year had become detached along the spine, but I mailed both parts to USHPA. USHPA refused to count that ballot. Additionally, during my recall election, I did not run a vigorous campaign because I figured that if I lost the recall, I could run against Brad Hall that next year (since he was the worst Director in Region 3 at that time). But in the middle of the recall election (after the voting was already started!!!) USHPA changed the rules to prohibit anyone recalled from running again for two years - even though the recall was without cause. I protested this and asked that it not be applied to the election already under way since votes had been cast with the assumption that I might run against Brad Hall the next year. But USHPA refused to make that exception and they passed the ban while the election was in progress.

Thanks for the great posts!!! This is why USHPA is afraid to have a forum on their web site. They would never want this kind of discussion to be done in public!!!