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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:10 am

JoeF wrote:Might the commercial concessionaire close because of the incident today? :?: :?: :?:

Bob Kuczewski wrote:Unlikely. They will practically step over the bodies to keep their tandem cash register ringing. I'll bet they're flying tomorrow.


From the La Jolla Light:

Late in the afternoon, after rescue crews had wrapped up their efforts, several other people launched their paragliders from the gliderport. They landed by sunset.


This story made the local television news and the Los Angeles Times.

The USHPA Board is holding their spring meeting this weekend. I'll bet they continue to ignore the elephant in the room.
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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby JoeF » Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:17 am

Caution: statements are not verified:
pgfpostOnTwoPGdieMar9of2019cc.JPG
pgfpostOnTwoPGdieMar9of2019cc.JPG (30.47 KiB) Viewed 303 times
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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby JoeF » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:12 am

Media and forums' status to the moment:
== sg : no report
== oz : Ben Reese ... general, two links.
== ks : no report
== LAT : See link in USHawks
== pgf: See clips in USHawks
== CBS8
== NBC 7 San Diego
The more experienced of the two was a 61-year-old man from San Diego. The other man was identified as a 43-year-old man from Orange County.

== San Diego Tribune
== https://www.kusi.com/fatal-hanhttps-www-kusi-com-fatal-glider-crash-in-torrey-pines-glider-crash-in-torrey-pines/
======================================================================
This media point uses "hang glider" very incorrectly: Orange Country Register
https://www.ocregister.com/2019/03/09/orange-county-man-and-one-other-die-in-la-jolla-hang-glider-accident/
============================================
Last edited by JoeF on Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:20 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:13 am

There's a lot of misleading information going around. Here's the link to the NBC affiliate story:

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/ ... 35561.html

It starts out with these three paragraphs:

A San Diego man and an Orange County man were killed in a hang-gliding crash Saturday afternoon at the Gilderport in Torrey Pines, a lieutenant with the San Diego Fire-REscue Department said.

The crash happened around 2:40 p.m. when the two men crashed and their gliders became entwined and fell around 75 feet onto the bluffs above Black's Beach, Lt. Rich Stropsky said.

One was an experienced pilot and the other was getting an advanced certification, he said."

"Hang gliding"? "Getting an advanced certification"?

Here's a link to the KUSI interview of San Diego Lt. Rich Stropsky:

https://www.kusi.com/fatal-hanhttps-www ... rey-pines/

Stropsky said one of them was "getting a more advanced certification for the second level of paragliding". Why such confusing wording? Why not just say "P1" or "beginner"? Rich Stropsky has been speaking for the City of San Diego about these incidents for years. Why wouldn't he use the terminology that we all know?
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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:30 am

Here's the Los Angeles Times article:

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la- ... utType=amp

Two dead as paragliders collide at Torrey Pines in San Diego County
By PAULINE REPARD
MAR 09, 2019
| SAN DIEGO

Two paragliders were killed Saturday when they collided above the Torrey Pines Gliderport in the northern coastal area of San Diego County, authorities said.

The incident occurred around 2:40 p.m. at the popular cliffside launching point off Torrey Pines Scenic Drive.

The two solo pilots crashed into each other about 35 feet in the air and plummeted onto the steep cliff face, about 45 feet below the top, San Diego Lifeguard Lt. Rich Stropky said.

One of the men was certified to fly on his own; the other man was working on his certification, Stropky said, adding that it wasn’t immediately clear to him which man had the certification.

One man was believed to be 61 years old and the other man was 43, he said. One was from San Diego and the other from Orange County.

The two men — one flying north, the other flying south — collided in the air, then crashed into a north-facing cliff, stranding them in a precarious position.

Several witnesses called 911.

“When we arrived, we had no reason to believe the injuries were fatal,” Stropky said.

A San Diego Fire-Rescue Department helicopter assisted lifeguards by lowering medics onto the cliff face — a move that was faster than using ropes to rappel down the slippery, deeply gorged sandstone, the lifeguard supervisor said.

The helicopter ended up hoisting the bodies to the top of the cliff.

The gliderport was busy earlier in the day with dozens of onlookers and several paragliders soaring up and down the coast, over the cliffs.

Winds were in the 10 to 12 mph range.

The flying spot is not meant for beginners. It is rated for intermediate pilots with a P3 rating who have 50 hours of experience, or for advanced pilots with a H4 rating. Anyone wishing to fly must check in with the gliderport operator and show their license.

The gliderport also offers a school, as well as tandem flights for non-pilots.

No further details were immediately available as to the identity of the pilots.

The gliderport was popular for sailplanes in the 1920s, radio-controlled model airplanes in the 1960s and hang gliders in the 1970s, before paragliding came into vogue in the 1980s.

Repard writes for the San Diego Union-Tribune

How is it that they can know their exact ages (61 and 43), but no one is publishing their ratings?
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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:41 am

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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby JoeF » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:21 pm

Orange County Register has "hang glider" in error. Wrong information carried into the Orange County Register as wrong information.
HERE

Error radiated: http://www.newslocker.com/en-us/region/anaheim/orange-county-man-and-one-other-die-in-la-jolla-hang-glider-accident/
:arrow: The error on craft type is spreading throughout the world. HG is taking a beating from this tragic incident.

===================================
Sacramento Bee article include names of two remarking witnesses.
===================================

Sidebar: parahawking at Torrey
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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby JoeF » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:16 pm

https://fox5sandiego.com/2019/03/10/officials-id-men-killed-in-mid-air-paragliding-crash/
Officials ID men killed in mid-air paragliding crash
=========================================================
Glenn Bengtsson, from Carlsbad, and Raul Valerio of Laguna Hills were the two men killed in the weekend crash above Torrey Pines, the medical examiner's office announced Sunday.


================================
Glenn Bengtsson, from Carlsbad; 43-yr old paraglider pilot
Raul Valerio of Laguna Hills; 61-yr old paraglider pilot
==================================
Glenn Johnny Peter Bengtsson, Carlsbad (43)
Raul Gonzalez Valerio, Laguna Hills (61)

Key quote from concessionaire:
HERE
------
Someone fed the media with "The fatality rate in paragliding is one in 100,000" How accurate is that figure? 1800 fatalities times 100,000 =180,000,000 pilots ?????? Has there been 180,000,000 paraglider pilots? No. :arrow: So, the fed statistic is wrong. The media was talking to the concessionaire.
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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby JoeF » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:26 am

Rick Masters wrote:March 11, 2019

To: Ed Chapuis, News Director
ABC 10 San Diego

Dear Mr. Chapuis,

I saw the claim of one fatality for every 100,000 people flying paragliders each year.
https://www.10news.com/paragliding-accident-victims-identified

The paragliding people have clearly pulled the wool over your reporter's eyes on this one.

I have gathered verified reports of 88 fatalities worldwide for 2018.
Although I am certain there have been many more, let's use that number.

88 x 100,000 means there were at least 8,800,000 people flying paragliders worldwide in 2018.
This is slightly more than the entire population of New York City.

Not all of these paragliders would be new.
Some would be as old as five years, but not much older, I am told, as they must be replaced due to wear.

8,800,000 / 5 indicates 1,760,000 paragliders produced each year worldwide.
365 days x 24 hours x 60 minutes x 60 seconds = 31,536,000 seconds in a year.
31,536,000 / 1,760,000 tells us that one paraglider has been made every 18 seconds for the past 5 years.

New paragliders cost around $3,000 or more each.
1,760,000 x $3,000 = $5.28 billion dollars per year
This tells us that the money spent on paragliders currently flying is 5 x $5.2 billion, or $26.4 billion dollars.
$26.4 billion dollars was the value of the American Airlines fleet in 2017, or the defense budget of Australia last year.

You have my sympathies. It's hard to find critical thinkers these days.

Rick Masters

-- This is an open letter and may be shared.
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Re: Two Dead at Torrey - Paragliding Collision (March 9, 201

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:44 am

You'll notice that all of the published reports are carefully omitting the ratings of the two pilots.

All paraglinding pilots with less than a P3 rating should be under instructor supervision. That's because of the traffic congestion at that site. If you carefully read the reports the actual ratings are not clearly given. Someone should check the USHPA ratings of these pilots.
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