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Re: Joe's reinstatement in HG.org effort

Postby JoeF » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:19 am

Out of honest-hearted Otto-family struggles rises the Phoenix that is the future of hang gliding... :salute:
Can you feel it? :salute:
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Re: Joe's reinstatement in HG.org effort

Postby SamKellner » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:11 pm

  Yes   
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Re: Joe's reinstatement in HG.org effort

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:31 am

Bill Cummings wrote:If my name goes on the wall that's okay with me. I'll overlook this idiosyncrasy since over all I've really only seen this one time in all of the last eight years where Bob screwed up.

It just dawned on me this morning that it's been 10 years since Joe Faust first called me out of the blue. I had just been elected as Region 3 Director in December of 2008, and I suddenly found myself on the phone with a guy claiming to be USHPA #5. I actually called my friend, John Heiney, to ask if it was even possible for USHPA #5 to still be around.

Over these last 10 years I've come to know the kind and gentle nature of Joe Faust. I've come to appreciate his open inquisitive nature and his duty of service to the sport and to humanity. I believe he's the best human being I've come to know in the entire sport of hang gliding (and that's saying a lot because I've met some really great people).

So, in a sense, I'm at a disadvantage to most of you when it comes to watching what was done to Joe. I see a much deeper injustice than many of you can appreciate because I've known the good human being of Joe Faust for these past 10 years.

Happy 2019 to everyone.
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Re: Joe's reinstatement in HG.org effort

Postby Free » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:54 pm

Bob Kuczewski wrote:
But there's also another important aspect of Joe's case that makes it unique. Joe wasn't just some pilot shooting his mouth off about nothing. Joe was posting to promote something very important to the future of hang gliding: merit-based ratings. Joe's USHGRS rating system is a fresh breeze in hang gliding. It fits perfectly with greater use of recreational land use statutes rather than centrally controlled insurance. It's exactly what will be needed as USHPA becomes less dominant in hang gliding.


The newbie idiot Doug Marley just posted comments in Jacks living room about a need for an independent rating system. I guess he doesn't remember his previous little psycho fit against that very thing.
So for all of those reasons, Joe's case was the one to hold up to either be reversed or to show everyone else how rotten the situation had become on hanggliding.org. It was an important rallying point to fix a number of problems in the sport. And all of that is on top of the fundamental injustice that was done to Joe as a fellow human being (and one of the best).

True, but not at the expense of shooting your own people to accomplish less than can be done by other means.

Joe was doing the most important thing he could do by posting about USHGRS. USHGRS was not only a path leading away from USHPA, but it was also a path leading to the world outside of Jack's "Iron Curtain". Anyone going to USHGRS could find their way to all the people and web sites that Jack had banned. That's what Jack really didn't like. That's why Jack took the extra step of obliterating every single reference to USHGRS.org just like he obliterated every reference to ushawks.org. That's the malicious fragmentation of the sport that helps keep USHPA in power because it's hard to gain critical mass.


Jack is an ass. His cowardly acts will be his legacy. His is not the only route.

I see hanggliding.org as no more than a means to an end. That "end" is freeing the sport of hang gliding from all the forms of bondage that hold it. That means freeing hang gliding from the bondage of USHPA.

Don't give Jack so much credit. Give him his legacy. Use his cowardice and dishonesty as publicity for USHGRS.
Jack is not the story to be told but it is color to the struggle for the future of hang gliding.
Jack's dirty deeds today are the poisoning of his own future.
A story within a story.

That means freeing hang gliding from the bondage of Jack and Davis. It even means freeing hang gliding from the U.S. Hawks. Pilot's should feel as free to change hang gliding associations as they're free to change gas stations ... whenever they feel like it. I don't care who spreads that message to the most pilots ... as long as someone is doing it. Jack's bans were not just bans of people. They were bans of ideas. That's what's most disturbing. I'd be happy not to have to ever post anywhere again if everything was being done right.


You've got a better message board than Jack or Davis. Their slanted influence is in decline and yours is increasing.
Go political. Name and shame. Call out the lies and disinformation.
Stand for truth and justice.

Bill wrote:I think that Bob is bitter about being banned from hg.org by Jack (sg).

I saved this for last because it's the toughest. I do personally resent a lot of things that have happened. I resent being put in jail 3 times. But that ordeal (for me) has established that the Torrey concessionaire can't just call the police to chase away people he doesn't like any more. I also resent being expelled from USHPA. But that ordeal has opened up Dockweiler and hopefully other sites for everyone. I also resent being banned from the HGAA and from hanggliding.org. But those ordeals have given us the U.S. Hawks and possibly contributed to the creation of USHGRS. So for me, it's not so much about whether any experience was bitter or sweet. What matters to me is what comes from it. That's how I view Joe's banning. If it becomes a turning point where people start to look for better communication alternatives, then it will have been a lemon turned into lemonade. But if it just isolates Joe and entrenches Jack's power and his reign of fear (as he clearly intended), then it's a bad thing. And that's a nice place to end because it explains why I've tried so hard to get people to speak out against this abuse. The stakes are high, and Jack's consolidation of power through fear does not paint a pleasant picture for the future of hang gliding.


For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. USHGRS is the pinnacle of reactions to layers and layers of negative actions going back to the beginning of the sport. Jack and Davis are opportunist in it for their own selfish reasons. The U$HPA has become a profit center temple to itself as hang gliding wanes.
USHGRS is where all our energy needs to go. Bypass all the roadblocks and impediments as bumps in the road. They are on the way down and USHGRS is the way up.
USHGRS negates the need for any hang gliding organization, including USHAWKS as direct competition to U$HPA.
Part 103 is all we need as independently rated pilots.
We've paid the dues. We've jumped through the hoops. We have valid ratings that readily satisfy FAA concerns.
USHGRS independently verifies these ratings.

I say direct new people to U$HPA training and ratings.
Once they have them, any backlash always goes to U$HPA.
The USHAWKS doesn't need to issue ratings.
Hawks can revert back to an educational hang gliding club.
Anyone with a rating can maintain that rating through USHGRS
and free flight continues under Part 103.

I think all effort should go to advancing USHGRS under a new educational organization, 'Free/103' or something in that vein.
An Advocacy Group for free flight on public and private land. Just like what Logan is doing.
Sorry this is so jambled. Out of time at the library. Got here late after digging out of 12 inches of snow.
Someone please make sense out of all of this and advance the idea into a plan... perhaps.
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Re: Joe's reinstatement in HG.org effort

Postby SamKellner » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:03 pm

FREE / 103

Good work Warren !

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
:salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute:


:wave:
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Re: Joe's reinstatement in HG.org effort

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:13 pm

SamKellner wrote:FREE / 103

Good work Warren !

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
:salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute:


:wave:

DITTO FROM ME.

Warren, I think the midwest snow storm has supercooled your CPU (brain) to maximum efficiency!!

:salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute:

We have all the right parts (Part 103, Recreational Use Statutes, USHGRS ratings). But it takes an effort to put them all together and apply them at each site. An effort means real people ... boots on the ground. For example, Funston would be an ideal next site to open. A few of us have tried to do that from afar with no success. We have very few regular Funston pilots on the Hawks (I used to fly there a few times a year until USHPA's expulsion). So how do we find local pilots at each site willing to carry the ball? That's a real.question, and that's where having our members banned from hanggliding.org and banned from Fellow Feathers and banned from Oz has tied one (if not both) of our hands behind our backs.

This is about a 4 minute video. Ask yourself how .much more powerful it was to have two people speaking rather than just one?



Did you watch It? Now imagine if there were 4 people speaking or 10 people speaking. That's the power of numbers. If people are willing to stand up and speak out then we can get somewhere. That's why all of the forces of evil in this fishbowl are trying to silence people. Whether it's Jack banning people or Davis banning people or USHPA expelling me for speaking up or the Torrey Concessionaire suing me for speaking up. How could all 4 of those entities "just happen" to use the same tactic of silencing people if speaking out wasn't important?

Any ideas on how to gather more people given the current situation?
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Re: Joe's reinstatement in HG.org effort

Postby Logan » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:47 pm

Free wrote:
Bob Kuczewski wrote:
I think all effort should go to advancing USHGRS under a new educational organization, 'Free/103' or something in that vein.
An Advocacy Group for free flight on public and private land. Just like what Logan is doing.


I am in the process of trying to reboot http://the103.club/ with a SSL certificate, maps which would link to flying sites (HG, PG, FLPHG, Ultralight, flight schools, etc.) each with their own forum area for discussion. I am relying on my fiancee to take care of all the programming for this, and I can only perform so many *cough* favors in a night.... so this is going a bit slower than I'd hoped.

I am very much intending to have information on USHPA, USHGRS, USHAWKS (already linked, but as there is no discussion or membership yet..... this is a relatively moot point), and any other flying information that pilots find to be useful. I welcome any support in building the103.club and creating topics. I would simply ask that we start off by creating the community we'd *HOPED* to find when we first got into flying.

The main difference between my vision of the103.club and what we have in ushawks.org (bob, feel free to jump in), is that Bob wanted to focus on Hang Gliding specifically when U$HPA stopped representing HG pilots. I am hoping to provide information on the103 as more of the free-for-all FAR 103 information sharing, pilot advocacy network.

Are there any specific functions that you would like to see in the Free/103 that you would like to see incorporated into US Hawks and/or the103.club?
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Re: Joe's reinstatement in HG.org effort

Postby Bill Cummings » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:39 pm

Logan,
I am hoping to provide information on the103 as more of the free-for-all FAR 103 information sharing, pilot advocacy network.

This may well be a noble effort but from the get go when FAA lumped me (a hang glider pilot) in a description that as far as they were concerned included (far too many) categories under 254 pounds -- I called that BS.
I still consider myself as a hang glider pilot not an ultralight pilot. If USHGA was about to fold if it couldn't get members I was ready to let them fold.
It was primarily about money coming out of my pocket. And for what?
I now look at the $150.00 annual dues as taxation without representation. It's not about the money it's about
the, "without representation." I see the HG pilots are mostly against the latest RD proposal and the PG are for it.
I'm looking at less representation in the near future. I was going to rejoin if they invited Bob K. back but I think Rick M. has it right. "Just walk away."
I want to join the ranks of pilots that will fly hang gliders that pass the HGMA safety standards.
I will not work against you and will assist you in promoting your idea.
I will stay with the US Hawks as long as they stick with their mission statement.
I will be assisting with the USHGRS.
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Re: Joe's reinstatement in HG.org effort

Postby Logan » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:44 pm

Bill,

I may not have made my intentions clear. I am not looking to ask for money, certify pilots, issue insurance, control property, or any of the other BS flight clubs are known for. I may perform certain advocacy functions, and coordinate with other flying organizations; but nothing involving a member list or requirement. I simply want a forum to discuss where to fly, what the *actual* regulations are at a given site. Safety tips. What power pilots are willing to offer tows under what conditions... Those kinds of things. I want to help people educate themselves and others, I do not want to control anyone.

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Re: Joe's reinstatement in HG.org effort

Postby Bill Cummings » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:29 am

:thumbup:
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