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Re: USHGRS

Postby Rick Masters » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:29 am

Have adequate skids or wheels on airframe.

Joe, hang gliding is the simplest form of flight.
Wheels and skids add complexity, drag, weight, and the potential for disaster by snagging something.
They are strictly optional.
I never use them.
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Re: USHGRS

Postby JoeF » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:56 am

Rick Masters wrote:
Have adequate skids or wheels on airframe.

Joe, hang gliding is the simplest form of flight.
Wheels and skids add complexity, drag, weight, and the potential for disaster by snagging something.
They are strictly optional.
I never use them.


A TCF basebar with its corners form structure that may bring snagging, gouging, digging with abrupt possible disaster. Already the basebar is a form of skid, but a very poor skid without much spooning. Necks and deaths have occurred from the abrupt gouging of the basebar. One might hope that a landing might be done without any touching of the basebar. But during HO, H1, H2 there have been very many launching and landing touches of basebar to the groun; and for H3, H4 also! It is the one time that inadvertent gouge occurs that one finds out that maybe a good spoony skid would have saved injury. The big wheels at landing in sand do not do much good. The big skids of pontoons for water landing do some good!
Looking for some good wording for the conduct regarding wheels, skids, skis .... ????
Thanks for teaming on this.

Current change to the line:
Have adequate skids or wheels or skis or pontoons on airframe. Optional. Controversial. Comments are invited.

The shown pilot had several challenges; and finally at the landing the problems were more important; he was lucky past his errors; the wheels were not quite adequate for his final use of them; but the wheels at the angle of impact did a bit of good; raw corner of the basebar without the wheel would perhaps have done him in. Hang Gliding Crash Lookout Mountain, March 15, 2014
Go to near the end of the video.
Clips:
wheelquestion001.jpg
wheelquestion001.jpg (34.11 KiB) Viewed 2836 times

wheelquestion002.JPG
wheelquestion002.JPG (20.06 KiB) Viewed 2836 times

wheelquestion003.JPG
wheelquestion003.JPG (27.74 KiB) Viewed 2836 times
Last edited by JoeF on Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: USHGRS

Postby magentabluesky » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:55 am

At the option of the pilot, after all the pilot is responsible for their own safety and how they wish to re-alight to earth.
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Re: USHGRS

Postby Rick Masters » Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:31 pm

I don't see any reason to mention skids or wheels in a code of conduct.
I don't even see a reason to mention a code of conduct.
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Re: USHGRS

Postby Free » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:48 pm

Rick Masters wrote:I don't see any reason to mention skids or wheels in a code of conduct.
I don't even see a reason to mention a code of conduct.


First of all I say bravo for creating USHGRS!
Great idea, Joe.
Wish I had thought of it.
Now I don't feel the need so much to start a new PG organization.
It is still a good idea that someone capable enough to pull it off should do, but I'm happy to not be involved.
I'm really scared of falling out of the sky, bed sheets trailing behind.

If anything though, I was thinking a much more limited para training with an underlining push for framed contrivance.
Lure prospective students in with the idea of fluffy fluff fluff flying and limit actual flying to low and slow static tow here where actual
altitude launches are far away. A foot in the door, a hop and ground skim with a good education of PDMC.
Then a real flight, static tow demo with a Falcon or a Goat would probably be all it would take to convert the redeemable.

This is something someone else needs to do. Not me, thank you.

Back to what Rick, said: I think I agree.
Just be a ratings clearing house.
Be very conservative in issuing those ratings.
Judge the training, don't try to be the training.

Although, maybe points could be reduced on a rating for moral and ethical conduct violations.
If Mark Forbes or Jim Gaar have a u$hPa rating of H3, then I would say give them a new maximum of a H2.
Sounds about right to me..
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Re: USHGRS

Postby Rick Masters » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:28 pm

Although, maybe points could be reduced on a rating for moral and ethical conduct violations.
If Mark Forbes or Jim Gaar have a u$hPa rating of H3, then I would say give them a new maximum of a H2.

Nope.
Politics has to be left out.
Politics has to be left up to the local clubs and local pilots.
USGHRS must be a ratings system only.
No one in USHGRS can choose to play god, even if they are God.
That's what screwed up USHPA.
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Re: USHGRS

Postby JoeF » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:56 pm

USHGS has taken the Conduct Code file off index lead front page.
The remnant file will keep the following terse statement:
3ReduceCCode.JPG
3ReduceCCode.JPG (36.62 KiB) Viewed 2804 times


In Q&A:

Conduct codes? Address such matters in your local RHG group.
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Re: USHGRS

Postby Rick Masters » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:35 pm

Be very conservative in issuing those ratings.

I understand what you mean.
You don't want people to get hurt by exceeding their abilities.
But we pilots learn these skills - many of them inherently dangerous - by doing them.
This is necessary for the re-invigoration of hang gliding and there is no other way in a solo sport to avoid the risk.
In my opinion, we want to encourage pilots to progress in their skills.
Certainly not too fast - but that is not the responsibility of the USHGRS.
It is the responsibility of the pilot and his peers.
I would prefer that if a pilot presents proof that he has accomplished the requirements of his previous rating, he be given the next rating.
Nothing conservative or too easy going about it.
Ideally, in my opinion, all H ratings should be issued blank and skills signed off later by designated observers.
Special skills should not be dealt with by USHGRS.
It is not necessary under FAR 103.
USHGRS should meet the minimum requirements of FAR 103 and nothing more.
This is why H5 is dropped.
There is always a tendancy to make things more complicated than necessary.
Resist this. Distribute the responsibility for special skills across the rating holder's clubs, observers and fellow pilots.
If we keep USHGRS simple, it may not collapse under its own weight.
Otherwise, you risk creating something that will not work.
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Re: USHGRS

Postby JoeF » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:01 pm

Special skills should not be dealt with by USHGRS.
It is not necessary under FAR 103.
USHGRS should meet the minimum requirements of FAR 103 and nothing more.
This is why H5 is dropped.
There is always a tendency to make things more complicated than necessary.
Resist this. Distribute the responsibility for special skills across the rating holder's clubs, observers and fellow pilots.
If we keep USHGRS simple, it may not collapse under its own weight.
Otherwise, you risk creating something that will not work.


Executing presently.
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Re: USHGRS

Postby Free » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:49 pm

Rick Masters wrote: Politics has to be left out.
Politics has to be left up to the local clubs and local pilots.
USGHRS must be a ratings system only.
No one in USHGRS can choose to play god, even if they are God.
That's what screwed up USHPA.


You are right and I agree. Was just getting a little dig in, now retracted.
Short on time here to add anything of substance so I'll just say carry on Joe!
I'll add my ratings soon..
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