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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Tue May 28, 2024 7:42 am

Seventh-gen hang glider?
Will 5-ft-or-less busable hang glider be "seventh-gen hang glider" respecting the potential that mobility advance is enough to establish a "new-gen" hang glider? For me personally, yes, but generally, maybe not. Some workers are trying to get into a "seventh-gen hang glider" developed:
(and maybe the present topic can benefit by studying what Avian is doing:


Note:
https://www.youtube.com/@avianhanggliders1985
Note:
The repository of the design and analysis tools so far is here:
https://gitlab.com/HG-dev
Note:
http://www.patreon.com/hgdev
=========================================
My post at his video comment:
Good spirts! Maybe you could open a chapter in your project for packability to polite busability at low mass with moderate performance. We have given strong reference to your works in US Hawks forum in the topic: "The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement
Postby JoeF » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:24 am" The pack aim is the treasured parameter, not super flight performance. It is anticipated the separation from dependence on cars, vans, trucks while allowing easy hiking and common use of city buses may bring on a new game for hang gliding. For some of us a "next-gen HG" will be one easily and politely carriable in the interior of a common city bus by the pilot.
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby Frank Colver » Tue May 28, 2024 11:56 am

I was surprised to see my Skysail, with son Matt flying it shown among the past designs. Without the benefit of a flex sail to deform with weight shift, I used those red drag "rudders" at the tips for turn and bank control. As can be seen in the still shot on the video.

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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby Bob Kuczewski » Wed May 29, 2024 12:19 am

Frank Colver wrote:I was surprised to see my Skysail, with son Matt flying it shown among the past designs.


I saw it too!!! Very cool Frank!!

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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Thu May 30, 2024 9:51 am

Thirty soft cables for one potential solution
of two starboard spars and two port spars
where spars are each three-tube telescopic items:


F: fore, A: aft; S: starboard; P: port

Upper Wing Port:

UPF1
UPF2
UPF3
UPA1
UPA2
UPA3
=============================
Lower Rigging Port:

LPF1
LPF2
LPF3
LPA1
LPA2
LPA3
=============================
Control Frame Keel (C):

CFP
CFS
CAP
CAS
=============================
Upper Wing Starboard:

USF1
USF2
USF3
USA1
USA2
USA3
=============================
Lower Rigging Starboard:

LSF1
LSF2
LSF3
LSA1
LSA2
LSA3
=============================
Kingpost Keel:

KA (Aft)
KF (Fore)
================================================
================================================
Alternative with "through cables"
Assume we have cables be "throughs" just up to the bifurcation of upper or lower rigging. Let a "through be a cable that substitutes for a starboard and port cable with the addition of a control-frame base bar region lengthening, and have stops on the through cable. Or for the keel cables, a "through cable" would hold the fore and aft cables into one, but with stops at the bottom of downtubes at the control frame. The we can, instead of 30 cables have 15 through cables: 7 upper through cables and 8 flying "through cables" for a count for the HG of 15 "through cables". Such might make assembly and packing easier.
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Thu May 30, 2024 2:49 pm

Looking more closely at the above mentioned alternative of "through lines" and now substituting "crossline" for "through line"
and giving new code for the 15 crosslines (7 upper and 8 lower); and bundle* the lower spar-to-spar crosslines to be the control-frame base):
Let "E" stand for keel.

Then have:

Upper Crosslines
Upper Wing Spars (Fore) crosslines:
U1F (Fore crossline from port to starboard spars)
U2F (Fore crossline from port to starboard spars)
U3F (Fore crossline from port to starboard spars)

Upper Wing Spars (Aft) crosslines:
U1A (Aft crossline from port to starboard spars)
U2A (Aft crossline from port to starboard spars)
U3A (Aft crossline from port to starboard spars)

Kingpost Keel:
KE (Kingpost keel)

Lower Crosslines (Flying Lines)
Lower Rigging Spars (Fore) crosslines:
L1F (Fore crossline from port to starboard spars)
L2F (Fore crossline from port to starboard spars)
L3F (Fore crossline from port to starboard spars)
==========================================
Lower Rigging Spars (Aft) crosslines:
L1A (Aft crossline from port to starboard spars)
L2A (Aft crossline from port to starboard spars)
L3A (Aft crossline from port to starboard spars)
==========================================
Lower Keel Crosslines:
LEP (Lower keel port crossline from aft keel to fore keel through port queenpost base)
LES (Lower keel starboard crossline from aft keel to fore keel through starboard queenpost base)
======================================================================================
======================================================================================
Summary
Upper Crosslines:
U1F, U2F, U3F (Fore)
U1A, U2A, U3A (Aft)
KE (Kingpost keel)

Lower Crosslines:
L1F, L2F, L3F (Fore)
L1A, L2A, L3A (Aft)
LEP (Lower keel port)
LES (Lower keel starboard)
=================================================
* The bundling of the flying port-to-starboard flying crosslines might be achieved by a simple wrap closed by hook-and-loop; the wrap would protect the flying crosslines from abrasion with the ground; wheels could be mounted on the bundle forming the base of the triangle control frame between the port and starboard queenposts. There would be stops mounted on the lower flying crosslines to register the lines with the two queenposts.

Not addressed are plane lines where diagonal lines fix the planar shape of the port and starboard wing sections with ribs and spars forming a series of planar quadrilaterals; the quadrilaterals will be fix with the diagonal lines and the upper and lower rigging crosslines.

Parasitic drag from exposed lines is a trade away from L/D for low-mass and packability.
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Fri May 31, 2024 11:30 am

Some Notes from Today's Design Session

:arrow: Tote wheels may need to be separable from the axle.

:arrow: Four wheels will form a low, four-wheel wagon. The packed set of rigid wing-frame elements will be strapped to the two axles, each axle having two wheels mounted on it. The strapping of the wheeled axles may be accomplished by a strap of various designs: simple elastic loop capturing the axle then overarching the pack finishing by capturing the axile on the other side of the pack; or an elastic strap with end hooks or end ties, or cord and tying. The elastic loop might be the most quick means without the challenge of having hooks around the scene. Loops on during land hike could be quickly offed and stored on the pilot's neck during bus or train ride. The elastic loops might play some role in the wing for flight, perhaps a role in controls or damping vibrations, etc. Look for second uses of the tote-used loops.

:arrow: Wheels might be made from half wheels, as in some flight uses, the wheels will be mounted on the bundle of crosslines that make up the base of the triangle control frame (TCF). A wrap will first be mounted over the bundle of crosslines. Then, two tote wheels will be mounted together over the port region of the control-base wrapped bundle of crosslines. Similarly, the other two wheels (four half-wheels) will form one wheel for the starboard region of the bundle of crosslines. If wider tread is wanted for sand, then the two sets of two tote wheels could be used in combination with a mounted tread of flat material screwed or otherwise bound to two tote wheels, say to get 6-inch-wide tread for port and similarly for starboard wheeling.

:arrow: The wrap could be made from various materials, with some being more rigid than others. Spot sleeving on the wrap for mounting the wheels could be hardened.

:arrow: Tote wheels may be set with limit washers and a small shear pin to keep the wheels in place during transport on the ground.

:arrow: During travel on a city bus, the wheels will be removed and carried separately. The axles, each about 16 inches long, will be easily carried by the pilot. The flat wheels will also be worn by the pilot during bus or train rides.

:arrow: While hiking on the ground, the low-slung rigid-element makeshift wagon will put very little strain on the toting pilot. At times, the pilot might choose to strap other gear or a backpack onto the low-slung wagon.

:arrow: While on a bus or train, the wheels will not be seen, and the wagon arrangement will not exist. The two axles will also be inconspicuous.

:arrow: Two low-mass elastic straps with light ties or end hooks will suffice to mount the wing's rigid-element pack to the two axles.

:arrow: There is hope that the rigid-element pack might be reduced to 2.5 inches by 10 inches by 60 inches, which is less than a cubic foot, sans sail.

:arrow: Sail segments might be wrapped around the rigid-element pack or packed into a chest pack and/or flat backpack. If the sail segments are wrapped around the rigid-element pack, a final abrasion guard, which could be the wrap used for the TCF bundle of crosslines, will be needed.

:arrow: It is hoped that telescoping tubes will permit low-volume rigid-element packing. There may be as many as seven telescoping tubes, twice over, plus two additional tubes. The four tube sets may be filled with some rib tubes, and empty spaces alongside the main tubes will provide room for additional rib tubes.

:arrow: How might sand interfere with the assembly and disassembly of telescoping tubes? This issue suggests the need for a large, low-mass ground sheet at certain sites or the careful use of smaller clean sheets. Special vigilance is required, particularly during packing. Additionally, caps may be necessary to close the ends of tube packs to prevent contamination. Moisture can exacerbate the problem by causing sand to adhere to the components.

============================================
Below is a GPT 3.5 chat response to my half-wheel need, but there are other ways than the AI suggested:
Concept: Split-Wheel Mounting System
Objective:
To design a wheel that can be mounted directly onto an axle where traditional side mounting is impeded by structural constraints. The solution involves splitting a standard 6-inch wheel into two halves that can be joined around the axle using bolts.

Detailed Description:
Wheel Splitting:
Initial Wheel: Start with a standard 6-inch wheel.
Division: Cut the wheel precisely into two equal halves along the plane of the wheel's axis. Ensure the cuts are clean and even to maintain balance and integrity when reassembled.

Joining Mechanism:
Flanges: Each half of the wheel will have flanges with pre-drilled bolt holes along the cut edges. These flanges will align perfectly when the halves are brought together.
Bolts and Nuts: Use sturdy bolts and nuts to secure the two halves together. The bolts should be evenly spaced around the circumference to distribute the load evenly and maintain the wheel’s structural integrity.

Axle Compatibility:
Direct Mounting: The split design allows each half to be placed directly on either side of the axle.
Alignment: Once positioned on the axle, the halves are joined together using the bolts, forming a complete wheel around the axle without the need for side mounting.

Structural Considerations:
Material: Ensure the wheel and flanges are made from durable materials capable of withstanding the mechanical stresses during operation.
Reinforcement: Consider reinforcing the wheel halves at the junction points to prevent any potential weakness at the split line.

Ease of Assembly and Disassembly:
Tool Requirements: Design the bolt holes and bolts for ease of access with common tools.
Time Efficiency: Ensure that the joining process is straightforward, minimizing the time and effort required for assembly and disassembly.
Advantages:
Accessibility: Enables wheel mounting in confined spaces where traditional side mounting is not possible.
Versatility: Can be adapted to various axle diameters and wheel sizes by modifying the design specifications.
Maintenance: Facilitates easier wheel maintenance and replacement without the need for disassembling surrounding structures.

Application Scenarios:
Machinery in Tight Spaces: Ideal for industrial equipment with restricted access to axles.
Custom Vehicles: Useful for custom-built vehicles where axle access is limited by design.
Robotics: Applicable in robotics where compact and modular designs are common.

Conclusion:
The split-wheel mounting system offers an innovative solution to the problem of mounting wheels in spaces where traditional methods are not feasible. By dividing the wheel into two joinable halves, the design ensures ease of installation, structural integrity, and versatility across various applications.
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Sun Jun 02, 2024 1:51 pm

Tube bundling pros and cons? Could there be a need to bundle rigid tube segments to win some plus in an on-topic effort? This matter will get some exploration by me. What is first teasing a look at the matter is the potential of getting a HG beam need via bundling a group of small-diameter tubes. When packing main telescopically packed spar segments there remains some empty space in the interior; that empty space is attractive: maybe a kingpost could be had by bundling three smaller-diameter tubes where the smaller diameter tubes are tote packed in otherwise unused spaces in a tight packing. :?: :?: :?: :?: :idea: :idea:
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby dhmartens » Mon Jun 03, 2024 7:39 pm

The Biden Administration now allows Ukraine to target glide bombs in Russian territory which now allows us to un mothball the telescopic hang glider prototype and activley promote it because glidebombs are no longer an influence when you shootdown the planes that carry them.
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Mon Jun 03, 2024 9:38 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonian_gasket

Packing kissing circles in rectangles? Fractals involving kissing circles? Apollonian gaskets? When packing rigid circular cross section tubes for tote may be related to circle packing challenges. And note that in each circle, concentric circles may be conceived. A combination of kissing and concentric circles may affect HG packing designs.
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Re: The 5 ft-packed-HG Movement

Postby JoeF » Tue Jun 04, 2024 9:53 am

Left rectangular cross section can case the right rectangular crcoss section for keel assembly. The tubes packed in the keel pieces supply wing spar telescopic assemblies and wing ribs, kingpost, and queenposts.
KissingRingsPackingSuggestion.jpg
Each shown cross section that is shown empty might further have interior smaller ring cross sections either concentric or kissing rings ala Apollonian gasketing. The ever smaller items might supply camber keepers, stiffeners, battens, camber makers,
KissingRingsPackingSuggestion.jpg (29.71 KiB) Viewed 349 times

===============================================================
Some notes about bundling three tubes in assembled hang glider:
1. Perhaps a thin veil on the tubes' surfaces of silicon could bring helpful friction for stabilizing the bundle. The veil would also help protect the tubes otherwise.
2. Precision pinning the ends of the bundles may be key.
3. Kevlar line or ribbon might be used to bundle the three tubes. Resisting motion of the three tubes relative to each other could be important.
===============================================================
ToteTubesWagonningSeparableWheelsl.jpg
The tote loop that holds the tube pack to the cushioned axle is not shown in the drawing. One elastic loop for each axle, fore and aft.
ToteTubesWagonningSeparableWheelsl.jpg (35.33 KiB) Viewed 349 times

Two flanged half wheels combine to make one tote wheel. Bolts are suggested in the drawing to combine two half wheels to make one wheel; other solutions might be chosen. Half wheels may mount over crosslined control base scene where lateral mounting might not be convenient.

There is an option to wrap the tube sets with sail segment; else the sail segment could be either worn by the pilot during tote or stored in a second luggage deal.
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