[JoeF]

StackTwoCrutchWagonDoublePurposeWheels.jpg (58.74 KiB) Viewed 810 times

Notes concerning the drawing:
Two-Crutch Solution using tubes 5-ft long or shorter.
Wheels during bus riding could be in a thin pocketed backpack with the four wheels in one plane.
The two axles implied are fully separable and packed during bus riding inside the crutches. Those two axles might be used in the wing for near-wingtip posts used to hold the base line for droplining to camber-forming button battens (perhaps about 1"x6" bendable slats).
The wheels (4) are potentially used for making quickly two wide wheels that fit on base of the triangle control frame where a cable (not bar) might be used in a line-rigged TPHG. A flat heavy film might be wrapped and screwed to two wheels and then tapped and sleeved with a fabric sleeve. The wheels might be used for sand landings, if standup landing is not achieved.
If the sail is not torso wrapped in bus riding but wrapped on each crutch, then keeping the sail clean during wagon towing might invite a protector set on the axle. The axle may have a wire stop, some washers, and perhaps a spacer.
Indicated in the drawing is the anti-slosh bolt; this would be only on one end of the tubes. The bolt end would be at the foot of the crutches.
There are four visual tubes in the stack; two for one crutch, two for the other. In those visual tubes are hidden telescopic tubes; the tubes are stopped from sloshing or inadvertently opening during bus riding or wagon towing.
Stack the two crutches in making the wagon. Assemble the two sets of wheels on their respective axles. Use an elastic loop to cinch the axles to the crutch pack.
Between two visual tubes of one crutch there are two places where spreaders occur (indicated by the red rectangle). There is a spreader at the foot of the crutch; the spreader could be a small tube place on the anti-slosh bolt; and that situation provides an anchor place used for forming the crutch handle; the crutch handle could be tethered between the armpit rest of the crutch and the foot of the crutch.
The armpit rest could be tethered from a protector cap; put a protector cap atop the two visual tubes.

Get off the bus using two special crutches; wheels are not visible; no wagon is visible. See a crutch-using person who must conserve health and fitness for the time of flying. When off the bus, stack the crutches, assemble the wheels with axles, strap the deal to the crutch stack, strap with elastic loops the pack to wheel set. Tow the built wagon to the launch. Assemble the TPHG from the pieces that made up the crutches, do all checks. Fly. Reverse such to get home on the bus.
.

[JoeF]

FunFex owner's manual:
https://www.delta-club-82.com/bible/manuels/funfex-owners-manual_id181.pdf
The FunFex is not TPHG per present topic, but might serve up some lessons for someone aiming for TPHG.

[Chris McKeon]

OK I do not want to come across as a Persistent pain in the rear. It is just that I have been following this ultra cool way of being able to after say a Cross Country flight. contracting your Driver Who has been following You in the Chase rig with its Rack. After landing. instead of breaking down Your Glider and putting it in its Glider Bag. Then after Your Driver who has Kindly dedicated their Day to You. You can simply pull out Your Phone and call. oh, I do not know. Yes, then just call, or heck Maybe someone has done just this. Heck yea! possibly so a Pilot has used say an Uber vehicle that are rides for Hire in order to get back to launch.

Look in the past I Myself have caused strife and frustration to My Pilot Friend KM Who kindly volunteered to handle our retrievals that Day. For I launched from the top of the Sierra Mountain Range. Then I blundered around in the Sky until I landed in Gardnerville Nevada. I really did not know that I was in Nevada. But when the Sots finally got connected. Late afternoon I saw K-M driving up to take me back to Launch. I am of the Guise; Any landing after an XC Flight. Is a far better landing experience than any landing at the Home Site LZ.

Miss Anitta B said it best. A Day without XC is like a Day without Sunshine.

[JoeF]

Chris, someday in the future framed hang gliders that are packable to 5 ft or less will no doubt enhance XC hang gliding experiences. That day is not here yet. And as you pointed out, calls to Uber, Lyft, or the like will make things easier for some outlanders when the tiny-packable HGs are used.

My guess is that the first era of tiny packable HGs will be used only in very conservative circumstances until the specific wings are proven safe to fly. Later eras with advanced tiny-packed HG that are proven safe for soaring, then the XC assets of such tiny packs will show themselves. However, someone might leapfrog such guessing.

=================================================
Filler:
75 lb craft: http://www.agrc.umd.edu/gamera/gamera2/index.html

[dhmartens]

My telescopic HG is based on this design. Some of my links are missing but we are going back to 1973. I was lucky that 50 square feet of sail material magically appeared and I grabbed it so despite no availible funds for the next month I can proceed.

[JoeF]

Fun, Doug! It is accurate to say you are building a model Rogallo HG using telescopic tubes?

[JoeF]

Sharing a concept to be explored:
Half hoops trussing compression member via tension lines:

HalfHoopTrussingCopressionMember001.jpg (26.2 KiB) Viewed 761 times

The density of the half loops and the density of the battens are decision points.
Optional exploration No lower sail; use tension lines to hold the spread of the half-loop feet. Use tension lines from the half-loop rear foot to the battens or/and to buttons in the sail. Half loop sare to be station snugged to the compression beam.

Tiny packing:
Telescopic compression member double tapered macro, so two sets of visual tubes holding smaller B and C tubes. The largest tube, signify with "A" in this scheme.
The stressed half loops might tote straight and inside C tubes.

[JoeF]

For the record: a note to C-Tech (New Zealand based) today:

Conservatively used ground-skimming hang glider politely pilot toted in tiny packing on local commuter buses and trains.

=======================
Staying with five-foot lengths of CFRP round tubes for all parts of a hang glider. The tubes will telescope in four sizes, call them A, B, C, and D with "A" as the largest diameter tube. Count of tubes will be 16 for each hang glider. Counts: 5As, 4Bs,6Cs, 1D.

The layup schedule for A tubes will be more stringent than the layups for Bs, Cs, and D. But the schedules needed are not yet known. Aim is that the lot of tubes (16) is to remain at 15 lb or less in total weight and hopefully still meet operational requirements. I do not have high level tools to figure specifications. Aim is to make a selection, build, test to failure and then modify specifications for another go on broken tubes. Axial compression and bending will be occurring on the tubes in the hang glider.

The A tube will be 2 inches OD for the first prototype. The only direction wanted for improvements would be smaller OD for the A tubes.

Limited funds have me taking lengthy noobie time to get to a decision point of purchasing tubes for the first prototype. And I am wary of shipping costs from C-Tech to Los Angeles. And I do not yet know what happens if the shipment of tubes never arrives or is smashed or severely damaged by the shipping process. And I have not yet determined comparison prices with other CF tubing suppliers. I see you have supplied tubes to at least one other hang glider manufacturer Icaro 2000; they have a fine set of wings. None of my doings will compete with other hang glider manufacturers. My doings: Proving out various hang glider designs that are able to be handily tiny packed in a pack no longer than 5 feet and weigh much less than commonly purchased hang gliders, and be used in a ultra-conservative gliding experience with full avoidance of thermal soaring, mostly ground skimming.

5As
4Bs
6Cs
1D
I neglected to share with C-Tech that there will probably be 2 Es and perhaps also an F; the Es and F are short and are available from the wide supplier realm that serves RC model aircraft. So, total: 19 tubes for one prototype underway.

[JoeF]

Exploring the realm of carbon fiber proves to be an exhilarating journey. These remarkable fibers, harnessed for various human applications, arrive through a multitude of channels. However, their minuscule size poses a potential hazard, as they can transform into perilous, needle-like splinters. To facilitate industrial processes leading to the creation of final products, these fibers are enveloped in organic coatings. Yet, even in this modified state, they present a danger to human eyes, skin, and respiratory systems.

The irresistible allure of their exceptional strength-to-weight ratio continues to beckon enthusiasts. The vast array of available fibers and their applications can be overwhelming, presenting a formidable challenge in optimizing products that incorporate these fibers.

It is evident that my personal exploration into carbon-fiber-based cylindrical tubes will not lead to my commercially selling of such products. The substantial investment required to test and guarantee quality for a broader market is beyond my reach. Nevertheless, this does not deter me from conducting experiments in creating high-performance designs tailored for convenient transportation during hikes, treks, bus and train rides, and the interior loading of passenger cars.

Many like-minded individuals are actively sharing their progress, working towards making such experiences readily available. Carbon fiber holds the potential to play a pivotal role in numerous innovative solutions. Combining a lower-than-average overall weight, meticulous packing techniques, adherence to conservative flight principles, and sound design will usher in a new era of convenience and accessibility for hang gliding enthusiasts worldwide.

Extant manufacturers might one day invest in this tiny-packed movement.
=========================
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_fibers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-fi ... d_polymers

[JoeF]

Not yet sure of final HG weights when based on bamboo. Total investment toward a bamboo solution (time, labor, ...) could be considerable. Bamboo may or may not bring satisfaction. Going with non-telescoping gives higher pack volume.

here is some step toward a tiny-packable HG based on bamboo:

User
Has anyone specialized in hollowing bamboo and forming telescopic sets of bamboo tubes?

ChatGPT
Bamboo craftsmanship is a long-standing tradition in many cultures, and artisans have developed various specialized techniques for working with bamboo. While bamboo is commonly used for a wide range of products, including musical instruments, furniture, and even telescopic fishing rods, creating telescopic sets of bamboo tubes specifically for telescopes is not a widely known or documented practice.

However, that doesn't mean it's impossible. Skilled bamboo artisans might be able to create such a product if there is a demand for it. The key would be to find an artisan or workshop with the necessary expertise and interest in working with bamboo to create telescopic tubes. You may need to search for specialized bamboo craftsmen or reach out to artisans and craft communities to inquire if they are capable and willing to undertake such a project.

It's worth noting that bamboo is a versatile and sustainable material, and many artisans are continually finding new applications and innovative ways to work with it. If you have a specific project in mind, reaching out to bamboo craftsmen and discussing your requirements with them might lead to a custom solution.

User
Step one: Say we start with a bamboo that is straight and dried and treated against decay. The smoothing the exterior would be fairly easy, getting all growth knuckles (proper name?) to be the same OD for a stick of 60 inches long. Step two: hollow the stick so no knuckle walls (proper name?) persist; drill or otherwise cut the interior so the inside is a smooth-surfaced cylinder ready to receive a smaller stick. How to hollow and smooth the inside of the first of telescoping bamboo sticks?
ChatGPT
Creating telescopic bamboo tubes, as you've described, requires precision and patience. Here's a basic guide on how you might hollow and smooth the inside of the first telescoping bamboo stick:

Tools and materials you'll need:

Straight and dried bamboo stalk.
Hacksaw or fine-toothed saw.
Sandpaper (various grits, including coarse and fine).
A drill with various drill bit sizes.
Files and rasps.
Ruler or calipers for measuring.

Step-by-Step Process:

Prepare the Bamboo:
Start with a straight and dry bamboo stalk, ensuring it's properly treated against decay.
Cut the bamboo to your desired length using a hacksaw or fine-toothed saw. This will be the outer tube.
Sand the exterior of the bamboo to smooth out any rough spots or growth knuckles. Ensure that the exterior is uniform and straight along the length.

Hollowing the Bamboo:
Begin by cutting one end of the bamboo tube at an angle to create an opening.
Using a drill with an appropriate bit, start making a hole inside the bamboo. Start with a smaller bit and gradually increase the size as needed.

Carefully work your way through the bamboo, drilling and removing material until you reach the desired diameter of the inner tube. Ensure that the inside surface is as smooth as possible.
Use files and rasps to further smooth and shape the interior. This may take some time, and patience is crucial to achieve a uniform and smooth interior surface.
Periodically check the interior with a ruler or calipers to ensure the diameter is consistent and to your desired size.
Creating Telescoping Sections:

Once the inner surface is smooth and to the desired diameter, you can create additional telescoping sections by repeating the process with smaller bamboo stalks that will fit inside the first one. These smaller sections should be sanded and smoothed as well.

Assemble the Telescopic Tubes:
The telescoping bamboo tubes can be assembled by inserting the smaller sections into the larger one. The precision and smoothness of the interior will determine how well they slide together.
Remember that working with bamboo can be challenging, and it might take some trial and error to get the exact results you want. Additionally, ensure you take safety precautions when using cutting and drilling tools. It's also worth considering that this process may require specialized tools and equipment for more precise results, depending on your desired level of craftsmanship.

User
The target is just a three-item stack. Largest bamboo call A. Next inside stick: B. Final inside C. Note the inside of C need not be hollowed. Note: The outside of A need not be smoothed. But inside of A must be able to receive the outside of B. And the inside of B must receive the outside of C, so C outside must be smoothed and sized.

ChatGPT
I see your goal is to create a telescopic three-item stack using bamboo tubes, with each section fitting inside the other. Here's a refined guide to achieve this:

Tools and materials you'll need:
Three bamboo stalks: A (largest outer tube), B (middle tube), and C (smallest inner tube).
Hacksaw or fine-toothed saw.
Sandpaper (various grits, including coarse and fine).
Files and rasps.
Ruler or calipers for measuring.

Step-by-Step Process:

Prepare the Bamboo:
Ensure that the exterior of bamboo A (the largest outer tube) is not sharp or rough. While it doesn't need to be completely smoothed, it should not have any sharp edges.
Cut bamboo B (middle tube) and bamboo C (smallest inner tube) to your desired lengths using a hacksaw. You should aim for a snug fit when one bamboo fits inside the other.

Interior Smoothing and Hollowing:
Focus on the interior of bamboo A first. Using a drill, begin hollowing it to create a smooth interior. The inside of A should be cylindrical and smooth to receive bamboo B.
Continue to smooth and shape the interior of A with files and rasps, ensuring it's wide enough to accept bamboo B.

Sizing Bamboo B:
The exterior of bamboo B should be sanded and smoothed to fit comfortably inside bamboo A. The inside of B does not need to be hollowed since it will receive bamboo C.

Sizing Bamboo C:
The exterior of bamboo C should be sanded and smoothed to fit comfortably inside bamboo B. Bamboo C doesn't need to be hollowed on the inside, as it's the innermost section of your telescopic stack.

Assemble the Telescopic Stack:
Start by sliding bamboo C (the smallest) into bamboo B (middle).
Then, slide the combination of C and B into bamboo A (the largest).
Ensure that the fit is snug but not too tight, allowing you to extend and retract the telescopic stack smoothly.
By following this method, you can create a telescopic stack of bamboo tubes, each fitting inside the other while maintaining a smooth and functional interior. Careful sizing and smoothing of the exterior surfaces are essential for the parts to slide together easily and provide a secure fit.

User
It is OK that B enters A with moderate gap; snug telescoping is not needed. Same for C in B, some moderate gap is fine. Next: how to seal the bamboo outside and inside surfaces to best maintain structural integrity for long term use? A,B,C will each be 60 inches long. These will become spar and strut beams for a tiny-packable hang glider where the tote pack remains at 60 inches length. The semi-loose telescoping allows less tote pack volume to get a polite carry on local city buses and trains.
ChatGPT
If you don't require an extremely snug fit for the telescoping sections, you have more flexibility in terms of sealing and maintaining the bamboo for long-term use. Here's how you can seal both the inside and outside surfaces of the bamboo sections to maintain their structural integrity:

Materials you'll need for sealing:
Beeswax or paraffin wax.
Linseed oil or tung oil.
Sandpaper (various grits).
Paintbrush or cloth.
Clean rags or paper towels.

Sealing the Inside Surfaces:

Hollow Sections (A and B):
After you've smoothed the inside surfaces of bamboo A and B, clean the interiors to remove any dust or debris.

Applying Wax (A and B):
Melt beeswax or paraffin wax and allow it to cool slightly. You can do this in a double boiler or a microwave at low power.
Using a paintbrush or cloth, apply the melted wax to the interior surfaces of bamboo A and B. The wax will help protect against moisture and decay. Make sure to coat the entire interior.
Sealing the Outside Surfaces:

Sanded Surfaces (A, B, and C):
Sand the exterior surfaces of bamboo A, B, and C to smooth out any rough spots or sharp edges. Start with a coarser grit and finish with finer grits for a smooth finish.

Applying Oil (A, B, and C):
Apply a natural wood finish like linseed oil or tung oil to the exterior surfaces of the bamboo sections.
Use a clean rag or cloth to rub the oil onto the bamboo. Allow it to soak in and dry. You may need to repeat this process a few times to ensure the bamboo is well coated.

Reapply as Needed:
Over time, the bamboo may require reapplication of the oil to maintain its protective coating. The frequency of reapplication will depend on factors like climate and usage.

By sealing the inside with wax and the outside with a natural wood finish, you will help protect the bamboo from moisture, decay, and UV damage. This should extend the life of the bamboo spar and strut beams for your tiny-packable hang glider. The semi-loose telescoping design will allow you to maintain a reasonable pack size while ensuring that the bamboo retains its structural integrity for long-term use.

I suspect bamboo in HG: there will be some use of some short hoop collars at tube overlap to resist end-of-bamboo beam splitting. Such collars might play to asset rigging roots. And the collars might arrive from use of Joe Strap stop-tube-compression-collapsing fittings. A bamboo solution to a tiny-packed HG might better universalize the whole deal.
Teasing only: