[brianscharp]

PS if you do edit I'll do the same. Since this is oops a copy

Didn't he all but delete it?

[Rick Masters]

It pains me to see insulting garbage from other web forums re-posted here on US Hawks Forum. We could do that all the time. We could become a reactionary bunch of whiners. If we choose to waste out time defending, for instance, the people who were responsible for starting hang gliding history from the rampant, ignorant, defaming and intellectually-bankrupt primadonnas and morons who infest those sites rather than forging ahead in an effort to improve the sorry situation to which hang gliding has descended, we will become sidetracked and never accomplish anything.

We have a firewall. It's BobK. He is the one outstanding moderator in the entire arena of freeflight. He is the only moderator or site administrator with the courage to say no to the garbage-mongers. Without BobK, hang gliding's future doesn't stand a chance.

Look at the Orwellian doublespeak coming from these sites. They accuse the US Hawks of attempting to "split" the sport. For heaven's sake, the sport was split when it allowed parachuting a voice in 1987. WE ARE NOT PARACHUTISTS. Parachutists are killed when their parachutes collapse. At least 1317 fatalities, so far. Who in their right minds would invite that into hang gliding? Who in their right minds would hang onto that, carry that, defend that, pay for that?

Let them amuse themselves and destroy themselves as they drown in their dichotomy. Don't bring it here. We have a serious task ahead. We need people who understand the problem.

Thanks, BobK, for making that possible.

[magentabluesky]

The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly.

Richard Bach
Illusions

To new beginnings, focus on your flight, spreading your new wings and fly, leaving the old world behind.

[Bob Kuczewski]

The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly.

Richard Bach
Illusions

To new beginnings, focus on your flight, spreading your new wings and fly, leaving the old world behind.

Keep your nose down ... and run hard!!!!     

See you soon Michael!!

[Rick Masters]

Here is a recommended PG procedure: always launch from a high-altitude aerial launch (never from soil); always terminate a PG flight while at high altitude; never fly a PG over a HG.

Better add, "Never fly a PG over another PG," Joe. On May 19, 2012, one paraglider collapsed and fell onto another and both fell to the ground. The woman flying the lower paraglider was taken to a hospital in critical condition with spinal injuries.

[JoeF]

Added with credit and agreement. Yes.

[Bob Kuczewski]

In my opinion, the sport of hang gliding is in desperate need of a major clean up. I publicly expressed my thanks to Davis for allowing me to post on the Oz Forum during the expulsion proceedings. But there was a very clear double standard where others were allowed to attack me and yet I was forced to walk on egg shells the entire time. I didn't violate his rules once, and yet I've been prohibited from further posting while the attackers remain.

Bill has made note of this double standard in his post below which quotes "Ben Reese" attacking in his typically irrational and uncivilized manner. This is the current standard of behavior that's been allowed to fester in our sport, and people need to see it to correct it.

I believe there has been some agreement to erase this rancid post to make it appear as if it never happened. In my opinion, covering up problems like these only allows them to fester. Ben Reese (and Davis Straub) deserve a permanent stain for writing (and allowing) this kind of abusive material. So I've quoted Bill's quote of Ben Reese so that it can remain just such a stain and at the same time allows Bill to keep his word about editing his own post (something he hasn't been able to do until now).

Here's the original post with quotation formatting added around Ben's post:

I drew up a response to Ben Reese post and here now is proof of the double standard when it comes to Bob K being warned about personal attacks or anyone else.

Re: Airnut Re: Insults of Joe Faust… Wed, May 20 2015, 9:12:49 pm
Ben Reese:
Airnut,

Joe Faust is the 5th column and a useful idiot of Bob K.
He has become a troll since his arguments are meant to
pull apart USHPA and embrace Bob K's every deed.
Just look back at the post where he says Bob is the victim
of big bad USHPA for doing his civic duty..

What a bunch of Crap, that nut job insults himself.
The sad thing is some person who knows very little of the issues
will read Jo's post and believe enough to doubt USHPA is truly
fair and acts responsibly. That is in fact what he is trying to do
is undermine our fragile relationships with anyone he can.

He has an axe to grind on many fronts and this para gliding split
is just one of them. He wants to change flight history and has some
really classic arguments with museum curators as well.
Joe Faust is an embarrassment to himself and that is not just my
opinion.

The very very sad part of this is Joe is very well informed of past
history. He interprets it in ways that some very smart and knowledgeable
people do not. And instead of separating himself from Bob K. he continues
even though Bob K. has done grievous things in court, in council meetings,
and in the media which he thinks will help his US Hawks association.

Joe Faust has become an air-nut-job and it is true he did not seem to start
out that way. But we are dealing with today not yesterday.
Today Joe Faust is not appreciated or respected for his posts here.

Many people have told me to just ignore him, don't read his dribble
and you know I did that for awhile. But his last post where he
portrays Bob K. as a victim of the system is just a puke pile..

If you are a member of USHPA and like your association then you
need to speak up here. It is you they are attacking and your flying
sites that USHPA we insure. It is USHPA us, you and me who they
are trying to tear apart. If they succeed you will curse the day you
did not vote to ban them and tell your friends to do the same.

I am not saying all this for my ego. I get no enjoyment trying to get
in the heads of nut jobs. That is exactly how you become one and
I have a self preservation program running in the background.

I let 5 pages pile up here before I said one thing now its 7 pages.
Somebody else can take it from here or not..

Ben Reese

"Joe Faust is the 5th column and a useful idiot----"
"He has become a troll----"
"What a bunch of Crap, that nut job insults himself."
"Joe Faust is an embarrassment to himself----"
"Joe Faust has become an air-nut-job----"
"Today Joe Faust is not appreciated or respected for his posts here."

Gee Ben I sure hope you ran this past Davis and Scare before you posted. I’d hate to see you banned from OZ.

I’d never have the balls to float a personal attack like that and not be banned.
(maybe go back and edit it or delete it. Before someone sees it.)
Good luck
Bill C.
PS if you do edit I'll do the same. Since this is oops a copy

Here's Swift's response to (and quote of) Ben Reese as well:

Ben Reese, it is you that is embarrassing yourself.
I can hardly read more than a few lines from you before I have to bail on your thought process.

Airnut,

Joe Faust is the 5th column and a useful idiot of Bob K.
He has become a troll since his arguments are meant to
pull apart USHPA and embrace Bob K's every deed.
Just look back at the post where he says Bob is the victim
of big bad USHPA for doing his civic duty..

What a bunch of Crap, that nut job insults himself.
The sad thing is some person who knows very little of the issues
will read Jo's post and believe enough to doubt USHPA is truly
fair and acts responsibly. That is in fact what he is trying to do
is undermine our fragile relationships with anyone he can.

He has an axe to grind on many fronts and this para gliding split
is just one of them. He wants to change flight history and has some
really classic arguments with museum curators as well.
Joe Faust is an embarrassment to himself and that is not just my
opinion.

The very very sad part of this is Joe is very well informed of past
history. He interprets it in ways that some very smart and knowledgeable
people do not. And instead of separating himself from Bob K. he continues
even though Bob K. has done grievous things in court, in council meetings,
and in the media which he thinks will help his US Hawks association.

Joe Faust has become an air-nut-job and it is true he did not seem to start
out that way. But we are dealing with today not yesterday.
Today Joe Faust is not appreciated or respected for his posts here.

Many people have told me to just ignore him, don't read his dribble
and you know I did that for awhile. But his last post where he
portrays Bob K. as a victim of the system is just a puke pile..

If you are a member of USHPA and like your association then you
need to speak up here. It is you they are attacking and your flying
sites that USHPA we insure. It is USHPA us, you and me who they
are trying to tear apart. If they succeed you will curse the day you
did not vote to ban them and tell your friends to do the same.

I am not saying all this for my ego. I get no enjoyment trying to get
in the heads of nut jobs. That is exactly how you become one and
I have a self preservation program running in the background.

I let 5 pages pile up here before I said one thing now its 7 pages.
Somebody else can take it from here or not..

[Bill Cummings]

On Page 2 of this Oz forum thread:
Re: Oz forum

Postby billcummings » Thu May 21, 2015 12:36 pm
I drew up a response to Ben Reese post and here now is proof of the double standard when it comes to Bob K being warned about personal attacks or anyone else.

Re: Insults of Joe Faust… Wed, May 20 2015, 9:12:49 pm
Ben Reese: ----
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob, It’s past the four hour deadline and since my post has been flagged as objectionable I wish to have it removed. Please archive it somewhere out of public view.
Thanks
Bill C.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Bob, It’s past the four hour deadline and since my post has been flagged as objectionable I wish to have it removed. Please archive it somewhere out of public view.
Thanks
Bill C.

Hi Bill,

It's an amazing coincidence that I had just replaced your quote with a moderator's note and was working on the PM to tell you about it while you were posting.

As I mentioned in the PM, I'd like to see us have an orderly procedure for making requested changes to people's posts after the time limit. I think that process should involve the Board at some point.

Along those lines, this August 13th will mark 5 years of the US Hawks forum. I'd like to set a goal of incorporation and establishing our Board of Directors by that date. I've never incorporated anything before, so I don't know how reasonable that is, but I like it as a goal.

[Bob Kuczewski]

For the record, I've been following some of the "Ben Reese" discussions on the Oz forum, and I think there's something wrong there.

After his outrageous attack on Joe Faust "Ben Reese" goes on to aggrandize himself.

Gee Kia,

You remind me of what my very good attorney told me at a very difficult time in my life. "Ben if your getting flack your over the target." Every person who sticks their neck out gets new friends and new enemies.

I think it makes life richer and more vivid, my normal days are not normal to most people. Like this weekend crewing for a vintage race car and selling another one, accually two!! Sleeping in the garage at Sanoma Raceway and joking around with a Billionaire buyer from Seattle, WA for a $300k Vintage Car that is racing and I am working on. Why me? Because the Car is a rolling airplane with a corvette engine in it. Built by a Conceptual Aerospace Engineer who contracted to Boeing in the 60's.

My competitive HG and aircraft building and flying makes my skill set very useful. My personality lacks fear at least open fear and I know the only difference between me and the guys with money is money. They respect me because I don't grovel, I don't brag I just see a need and get it done.

The owner of the car asks me? We have a buyer should I park it and be safe?

My response, do you have a contract or a check? No not yet. Then if you want top dollar go beat his a** with this car and don't look back.. You came here to race so go race, just be safe, don't blow it!!

Ok race cars are fun but flying HG is right up there. Building your own plane and going more than 200mph across country is way more enjoyable than going around in circles.

By the way Dan Bucannon was here yesterday in the pits and the Jag Pace Car is driven by his good friend and another HG pilot who turned racer!! Pretty dam cool which of course gets me in the pace car also!!

Joe wanted some Ben Reese info… Doing all this since Thursday and making post updates…

BR

Then he goes off on a tangent describing himself:

Hi Steve,

Yes you are right about the stories some epic ones more than One days worth in the LZ, enough to Ben you out…

It's not that my stories are any better than yours it's just in the telling of it and the lessons I learned being laughed at and yelled at; and well it seems I have a talent for bringing out the emotions in people on some issues. Ok most issues…

It's not a hobby of mine to debate stuff I just have opinions, hate bullies and don't back away from a fight as long as I can out run them! And that is how I have kept a pretty face all these years… I also have a few moves that focuse on staying out of jail… I have guns, stash gold and ride some serious bicycles so practice what I preach but few people believe it.

In fact few people believe very much about me and my experiences at all and even the ones who know me dont think I can repeat it??

I have insight that quite often only I believe is right so it angers even my friends when I am right. Or better said it all works out alright. And that is where faith comes in since I live by it. Not blind faith but responsible faith, man up move on if heart is right it will be alright even if your not completely right..

I live by a few simple rules, work hard, play hard, do no harm to others getting what you want. There is intentional harm and un-intentional harm and a very big difference in each. Apologize when your wrong or error and if you choose to do harm have very good moral and legal reasons for doing it, finish to your best ability so even if you don't win you are highly respected. Winning is not winning the fight it is not repeating the fight.

Accept that some people, organizations and countries just need to learn a lesson and that it could be you, your Org and your country needing that lesson.

Be humble but never weak.
Be strong and always meek.
Be good to others with toung in cheek.
Be grateful then grab the truths you seek.
Live as full as if this was your last honest week.

Love at least tree wemon in your life…
In this order,
Your mom,
Your grandma,
Your wife,
And wives if required…one at a time… at least on different days…
Remember all their names including nick names, favorite things and birthdays.
They are right it's not a fight you lose even if you win.

Admit you are more woman than man because genetically its true and you freaking came out of one.. Your nads don't give you special rights but they do give you special duties so its ok to be proud when you carry them. Carry them quietly and keep them tucked away until you really need them. The less you unleash them the more of a man you are and the more real wemon will love you. They will still be angry with you so get used to it, you are a man for Christ's sake who can be traced back to all the world's heartaches!

Anyway Steve, yea it sounds fun as long as we screen the LZ for pitchforks..
Would love to.

Most Useful Quote of the day:

Who ever said,

"The pen is mightier than the sword"

Never faced an automatic weapon…
Or a righteously angry woman…

BR

I don't know what's compelling him to make such statements, but Joe points out the stark contradiction between how Ben portrays himself and how he really has acted:

do no harm to others.

There can be no doubt that Ben's incessant attacks on the expulsion topic did extreme harm to my ability to present a defense to the hang gliding community. His diversionary posts made the topic almost unreadable. So for him to then say that he lives by the rule "do no harm to others" shows a disconnect with the reality of his actions.