[Free]

Ok, that's taken care of. Joe Faust has to be the most magnanimous hero I ever had the fortune to know, in hang gliding especially, and elsewhere.
Even though he knows that weaker pilots among us may be dissuaded from benefiting from his generous efforts in a pilot's rating system by the mere fact that there may be a connection to what may be the most unfairly ostracized pilot in the history of hang gliding. He ups the ante in the support and fellowship with that industrially abused pilot. We should all be humbled.

My previous proposal was probably an overreaction swayed by the 'theory of the mind of adult children'. I know there are weak people that choose sides for other reasons than truth and justice. There undoubtedly will be those that dismiss Joe's selfless efforts in advancing the future of free flight simply because of perceived association. That is too bad. But the problem here is is in the weak people that are swayed that way. Pity them and any negative repercussions to the future of free flight.

My reaction now is to support both truth and justice entities in their web presence as I know nothing is free. Jack Axaopolous's web site is not free. He sells a product to advertisers for profit. The product is the membership of generally prosperous pilots. The ads hit you before you go to the inane information and kitty pictures. The ads follow you everywhere you go when you leave Jack's living room because Jack looked in your wallet and told all the world how much discretionary spending may be possible and what you might be persuaded to spend it on. He doesn't care that much that I can see about the future of free flight.

Bob and Joe have never mentioned the monetary cost of providing the service of their web sites. I'm sorry to say that I've never given it much thought. On top of all of the unpaid work put in to supply these services to pilots, how about we pilots cover some or all of these costs?

How about a donation button or info on donating to you two. Tell us what would be fair and a route to cover it.
I'm sorry that this has never been brought up before.
Warren

[Bob Kuczewski]

How about a donation button ...

Thanks for mentioning it.

We actually have donation buttons posted throughout the forum. Here's what they look like:

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We even have a list of our top donors via the "Members" button. You're already on that list:

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Thanks for your years of donations Warren and the same for everyone else on that list!  

[Free]

Guess that makes you the real non-profit organization if you won't even accept expenses.
U$hPa non-profit accepts about 2 million a year according to Dick Heckman.
How much of that goes to the lawyer who now seeks to further consolidate power to himself with the new board proposal?

[brianscharp]

Free, thanks for your studies, concerns, insights, and suggestions.
By your

that if a message board was included in an enhanced USHGRS web site.

synergy, a major addition has been added to the USHGRS front page: USHGRS

Why conceal the USHHGA URL on the link?

[JoeF]

Hi brianscharp,
I am trying to decipher your concern. You write an acronym that is not part of the discussion.
Please clarify the matter.

Trying to guess:
Text links are common. One has the option of forming a text hyperlink or putting a raw URL.
A cursor over a text link will reveal the underlying URL.
USHGRS is a text hyperlinking method.
Here the raw overt URL method: http://www.ushgrs.org/index.html
In both cases the URL is present to visitors. The text linked method is often considered the polite shorter method;
filling prose with raw URLs is not as smooth.

Did that face your concern? If not, when I hear from you, I'll face your concern as best possible.
Lift,
Joe

[brianscharp]

You write an acronym that is not part of the discussion.

Sorry for the confusion, Joe.
Guess I made a new acronym.
USHHGA = U.S. Hawks Hang Gliding Association

I was referring to the use of "Free-and-open hang gliding forum" as a hyperlink on the USHGRS site, to this site. Wouldn't "ushawks.org" or something that more prominently displayed this site's name, provide more bang for the advertising buck?

[JoeF]

Oh, I see now. USHGRS had the space open for a sponsor. It is up to the buyer to compose their ad. The first copy set was an offering; I told the buyer that the text/image may be changed at their will; they did not enter a change yet.

Your estimate may be on target. But it is a fuzzy matter what would win. Traffic is yet low, but will be growing.

___________________
PS: I am a happy camper: This is posted using my new and first ever mobile cell. I am at a little eatery enjoying A wet burrito. Small closer world!

[Bob Kuczewski]

Warren,

I owe you an apology. I read your whole post at the top of this page on December 19th, but I only responded to the donation button part. When I saw your donation button suggestion, it gave me the idea to portray all posts and topics as "donations" (which they truly are). Next thing you know I was happily scurrying around the forum taking snapshots of buttons and lists to post in my response. By the time I got it all together, I was so pleased with myself that I forgot about the rest of your post. I'm sorry about that.

Joe Faust has to be the most magnanimous hero I ever had the fortune to know, in hang gliding especially, and elsewhere.
Even though he knows that weaker pilots among us may be dissuaded from benefiting from his generous efforts in a pilot's rating system by the mere fact that there may be a connection to what may be the most unfairly ostracized pilot in the history of hang gliding. He ups the ante in the support and fellowship with that industrially abused pilot. We should all be humbled.
     :
Warren

First, your words about Joe Faust are exactly right. Joe is all of the things you said and more. It's a great privilege to have him posting to the U.S. Hawks forum. It's unbelievable that Jack would ban someone of Joe's caliber and kindness. That alone says all that needs to be said about Jack and his minions.

I also want to thank you for the kind words you wrote about me ("the most unfairly ostracized pilot in the history of hang gliding"). You and I haven't always agreed on everything, and it's very kind of you to overlook those past disagreements and make that statement. Sometimes I have stumbled, and I apologize for that. I am thankful for your patience with my own mistakes and I appreciate you staying with us through thick and thin. Thanks.   

[Craig Muhonen]

If I may interject some of my thoughts as an "oldnewushawk"....

A few one liners to start.

"Judgement comes from experience, ....experience comes from bad judgement"

"The more you know, the more you'll go"

"Pilots should only be listened to when they calmly say " we have an emergency...... and Brace for impact"

As a young man, Growing up in an aviation family and then as a pilot (private), in a Flying club, and then a airplane captain in the Marine Corps. I "clung" to the comradery . There are only a tiny few who choose to pilot a craft into the atmosphere, much less do it for a lifetime. I remember the pilots in my life time, including my hang glider and sail plane friends, talking with each other , mostly about what they knew....flying and their familys. They would usually leave "other stuff" go, because it didn't fit the every day mindset of being a pilot. As selfish as that seems, it was a sacrifice they made to stay focused on "piloting". Recreational "flying" leaves so much time for "other stuff" to come in and it only leads to distraction. It's like in golf, if you are thinking about that 4' putt you should have made on the last hole, when you get to the top of your swing with your driver on the next hole ....well....it usually doesn't go well.
I think that's the point of this post. As a pilot, if you let "other stuff" creep in right when you want to "fly" ...well...I think it hampers judgement. We get back on the ground with a good landing and we think we're invincible ...........but we are not.
The comradery between pilots is our strength (even if we haven't flown for ....awhile).

My thanks to US Hawks for a free and open forum.

Craig oldnewushawk Muhonen

[Craig Muhonen]

Hello hawks, since 2011 you all have given so much of yourselves to each other. The "forces" against free flying are like the "Blob", but you guys show your strength through your respect for each other, even in some discourse. I am such a new member with only rambling memories of my younger self. You are well written, and well spoken, and I have learned so much. You gave me three stars, as all of you are, but in my mind you are all 5 star gold.
Good on ya all.

T Y

Craig Muhonen