[Free]

This thread may meander a bit in varying topics but always with the fact of overarching oppression of Davis Straub's unbalanced moderation and censorship. The title is a hook that will undoubtedly be brought to Davis Straub's attention as a challenge for response. Straub needs to account for actions that appear detrimental for the future of hang gliding.

Leaving that to simmer for a bit we move on to today's commentary on the Oz Report. The long holiday weekend over, Blindrodie attempts to wax esoteric on some of M.Grisshams' Saint Exupery commentary.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... 0da57b973b

Blindrodie was triggered to comment on this quote:

"Exupery:
They looked upon themselves as men who lived by higher standards of behavior than civilians, as men who were the bearers and protectors of the most important values of American life, who maintained a sense of discipline while civilians abandoned themselves to hedonism, who maintained a sense of honor while civilians lived by opportunism and greed."

Blindrodie (Jim Fredo Gaar) writes of "the intersection of “The Right Stuff” and “The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test":

"Blindrodie:
Seems that intersection is, many times, between holier then thou and maintaining a normal acceptable sense of self worth and value. Way to many pilots think they are in a better position to judge others and it's obvious on this forum. Let us remain humble in our thoughts and actions. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely -time and time again."

It seems the quote hit too close to home and Fredo had to answer. But it is all jumbled up. As usual.
It is impossible to unravel to make any sense. He doesn't like it that better men than him judge him hedonistic, opportunistic and greedy?
Well if the shoe fits, wear it, Rodie... Fredo.. with your "normal acceptable sense of self worth and value" a low bar to maintain.

" Fredo: Let us remain humble in our thoughts and actions."

.. hilarious coming from you.. and then the wrap up,

"Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely -time and time again."

This is true but it's the corrupt power that keeps you out of jail and in the spotlight.
If Davis Straub was true to anti corruption and what is right and wrong, you would not be sitting in the star's spotlight on the Oz Report, as you are now.

Notice that the new Straub guideline rules of not using the word "you" on the Oz Report, do not apply on this uncensored hang gliding forum?
Why don't you come to this forum and speak up for yourself, Mr. Gaar? There are few restrictions here, you know..

I want you to expound on that time you got caught with 2.2 lbs. of cocaine back in the daze...
Wow.. I sure wish I had known about that before I got mixed up with you.

[Bob Kuczewski]

From Wikipedia:

An illustration of Grendel's mother by J.R. Skelton from Stories of Beowulf (1908) described as a "water witch" trying to stab Beowulf.

626px-Stories_of_Beowulf_water_witch_trying_to_stab_beowulf.jpg (229.83 KiB) Viewed 4271 times

Grendel's mother (Old English: Grendles mōðor) is one of three antagonists in the anonymous Old English poem Beowulf (c. 700–1000 AD). The other antagonists are Grendel and the dragon, all aligned in opposition to the hero Beowulf. She is introduced in lines 1258b to 1259a as: "Grendles modor/ides, aglæcwif".

Grendel's mother, who is never given a name in the text, is the subject of ongoing controversy among medieval scholars. This is due to the ambiguity of a few words in Old English which appear in the original Beowulf manuscript. While there is consensus over the word "modor" (mother), the phrase "ides, aglæcwif" is the subject of scholarly debate.

Thanks Warren. I always learn something interesting from your posts!!

This thread may meander a bit in varying topics but always with the fact of overarching oppression of Davis Straub's unbalanced moderation and censorship.

Well said.   

Davis and Jack have been a great help to me in teaching me how *NOT* to moderate a hang gliding forum.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Even more from Wikipedia:

Beowulf jumps into the lake, and while harassed by water monsters gets to the bottom, where he finds a cavern. Grendel's mother pulls him in, and she and Beowulf engage in fierce combat.

At first, Grendel's mother appears to prevail, and Hrunting proves incapable of hurting the woman; she throws Beowulf to the ground and, sitting astride him, tries to kill him with a short sword, but Beowulf is saved by his armour. Beowulf spots another sword, hanging on the wall and apparently made for giants, and cuts her head off with it.

One day, fifty years after Beowulf's battle with Grendel's mother, a slave steals a golden cup from the lair of a dragon at Earnanæs. When the dragon sees that the cup has been stolen, it leaves its cave in a rage, burning everything in sight. Beowulf and his warriors come to fight the dragon, but Beowulf tells his men that he will fight the dragon alone and that they should wait on the barrow. Beowulf descends to do battle with the dragon, but finds himself outmatched. His men, upon seeing this and fearing for their lives, retreat into the woods. One of his men, Wiglaf, however, in great distress at Beowulf's plight, comes to his aid. The two slay the dragon, but Beowulf is mortally wounded. After Beowulf dies, Wiglaf remains by his side, grief-stricken. When the rest of the men finally return, Wiglaf bitterly admonishes them, blaming their cowardice for Beowulf's death.

Yes, there's a lot to learn from your posts Warren.   Thanks.  

[Free]

Mike, a newer pilot, says negative threads such as this one scares away prospective pilots.
Bob agrees to a degree and offers the following "best advice".

Hi Mike,

I'm sorry for all the politics. Let's get back to flying ...
   :
   :
Now let's plan for a few Dockweiler days and be seen having fun in one of our great urban sites!

Warren, book a "red eye" flight to LAX and sleep on the plane. I'll pick you up at LAX and we'll go straight to Dockweiler for a fun day of flying. I'll buy or bring breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Then take the "red eye" home and sleep on the way as well. Maybe we can arrange for Joe, Frank, Mike, Eagle, John Heiney, Dave Beardslee, and a bunch of other "locals" to join us.

Be sure you've got your signed waiver from Beaches and Harbors before you book your flights.

That's my best advice!!  

Sorry Bob. I know you mean well but even with breakfast, lunch and dinner, your offer sucks.
I'm not inclined to even make the two hour drive to a short section of 300ft. river bluff, basically the only foot launch site in our area.
Beyond that, the next site is 6 hrs. away and a bit better at 1500 ft or so. I used to enjoy those longer trips but I cut those off along with my USHGA membership. That's right. I was gone before the big P was embraced for the corporate income after Mark Forbes and Jim Zeisit broke USHGA financially.

I sure as hell have no desire to red eye anywhere for dune flights in all that silica and bird poop dust.
Thanks Joe, for that negative (positive) information. I appreciate knowing in advance of a two thousand mile road trip!

So Bob, I wouldn't make that trip if you paid the commute. No offense intended.
Thanks just the same. Your offer does bring up 2 things that hurt the sport.
Distance and expense. How can you fix that to save the sport?
How can we talk about it if someone says the discussion is kinda negative.. assuming you are serious about limiting negative posts?

Since this thread will eventually be read by Davis Straub, maybe he will comment and also explain his Grendel connections/collaborations.
You two can compare notes on how best to squelch discussions that might cause someone to feel uncomfortable.
Two of Davis Straub's censorship rules were 'you can't say you, and nothing can be said that might offend the most sensitive person to possibly read that post.. ever. ... wow.. just wow..

Bob, you hinted about putting Spider Mike's suggestion/referendum # 1 up to the Board for a ruling.
Can you and Mike, please define specific language of any new protocol amendment?
Anyone else like to comment? Please do.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Bob, you hinted about putting Spider Mike's suggestion/referendum # 1 up to the Board for a ruling.
Can you and Mike, please define specific language of any new protocol amendment?
Anyone else like to comment? Please do.

The great thing about the U.S. Hawks (and very different from USHPA, Oz, and SG.ORG) is that anyone can bring anything up to the Board at any time. The Board is always "in session" and we have a whole subforum dedicated to that process. That's what Michael Grisham did, and he was treated fairly. No one was banned, and he's still welcome to post here any time. That's why I would argue that we have the best and fairest moderated forum in the sport of hang gliding.

My comment about the Board's position on "positive" / "negative" comments was:

In other words, you both have valid points, and I agree with you both. And I think (hope) you can each see the other's point as well.

As for what to do about it, that's really up to our U.S. Hawks Advisory Board. I would argue that we should do the following:

1. Encourage free speech - including political speech - for everyone.
2. Encourage non-political "happy happy I'm flying" speech even more.

The first is what makes us unique among hang gliding forums and we should cherish it (I certainly do). The second will help us grow. We will need both if we really want to succeed in saving the sport of hang gliding. That's what spurred me to pledge to try to make 2 "happy I'm flying" posts for every "this sport is screwed up" post. I'm finding it's not as easy as I'd hoped!!

You'll note that both of my suggestions were about "encouraging" and not "forcing". That's what makes this a great forum.

Now get on that phone and book a flight to LAX!!!   

[Free]

Somehow, I just lost a few paragraphs of commentary to some kind of mouse/keyboard mix up. Poof, it was gone and it was great..
So sorry everyone is deprived of such great commentary... Skip all that and I'll get to the blunt end of where I thought of ending. Bob, you don't listen to what I say. I thought it was clear in my previous post that I would not relish that huge round trip to fly sand dunes at the beach. Closer, yeah sure, but not that distance.
You don't listen. You don't hear.

Onward, you want to curtail politics when you can't even define what that is.
It is nice you want to please everyone but you can't have it both ways.
"Politics" isn't even what is in contention here. No actual politics were ever discussed before there was talk to curtail it.
Politics is what you should pursue here. It is the only reason the USHawks even exists.
If you curtail politics you won't be representing the purpose of your existance.
Politics, as undefined, is the power of the movement you have originated here.
If you self censor, you have preemptively lost your battle.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Bob, you don't listen to what I say. I thought it was clear in my previous post that I would not relish that huge round trip to fly sand dunes at the beach. Closer, yeah sure, but not that distance.
You don't listen. You don't hear.

I heard and I listened and I advised you to overcome all those obstacles and have a fun day on the beach anyway. It would be good to finally meet you in person and spend a happy day flying together in our old age ... while we still can. Life is short my friend. Don't let the rotten folks in USHPA deprive you of anything. Maybe we could meet at Point of the Mountain in Utah? It's a little farther for me, but closer for you. I don't mind.   

Politics is what you should pursue here. It is the only reason the USHawks even exists.
If you curtail politics you won't be representing the purpose of your existance.

I never said I'd curtail my politics or anyone else's. I just pledged to increase my non-political posts to have a nicer balance for visitors. That was a good suggestion by Mike.   

I am also encouraging you (and everyone else) to do the same. Sure, tell the world about the rotten things going on. Don't hold back. But then add a post about a memorable flight and another post about some technical detail from your towing experience. We can have the best of both worlds!!

[Free]

Sure, tell the world about the rotten things going on. Don't hold back. But then add a post about a memorable flight and another post about some technical detail from your towing experience. We can have the best of both worlds!!

How about this for technical detail of towing?
I was worried that Tad hadn't posted for days. He must have been typing this up:
http://www.kitestrings.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6&start=1800#p11744